Could solar power be utilized and substitute coal in the 19th Century
$begingroup$
Would it be possible for a nation with 19th century to very early 20th Century technology and history and hot desert climate to utilize solar power for electrical generation as a substitute for coal or replace the use of coal in any other way?
Hope this question is more to the liking of this stack exchange.
There is not an abundance of national coal however rivers and ocean could allow for importation of coal.
technology hard-science steampunk
asked 5 hours ago
Echo61505Echo61505
766
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Would it be possible for a nation with 19th century to very early 20th Century technology and history and hot desert climate to utilize solar power for electrical generation as a substitute for coal or replace the use of coal in any other way?
Hope this question is more to the liking of this stack exchange.
There is not an abundance of national coal however rivers and ocean could allow for importation of coal.
technology hard-science steampunk
asked 5 hours ago
Echo61505Echo61505
766
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Not in the way you asked the question, absolutely not. If it wasn't done back then, it can't be done with 19th century technology, that would be a paradox. But I assume you dont mean literally 19th century technology but something else? Perhaps instead of asking this question, describe what you want to do first and then tell us the exact part, details are king here, that you are unsure about or don't know how to do.
$endgroup$
– Raditz_35
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not with solar panels, no, but remember that coal IS solar indirectly.
$endgroup$
– Renan
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Sorry, but could you state directly what "h se" is, because when I google it, the results are confusing and not related to your question.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
In daytime they had daylight, and solar power does not work at night (at least not with any imaginable technology of the time), this would put a crimp in the development of electric light...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Dann that typo..
$endgroup$
– Echo61505
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Would it be possible for a nation with 19th century to very early 20th Century technology and history and hot desert climate to utilize solar power for electrical generation as a substitute for coal or replace the use of coal in any other way?
Hope this question is more to the liking of this stack exchange.
There is not an abundance of national coal however rivers and ocean could allow for importation of coal.
technology hard-science steampunk
asked 5 hours ago
Echo61505Echo61505
766
$endgroup$
Would it be possible for a nation with 19th century to very early 20th Century technology and history and hot desert climate to utilize solar power for electrical generation as a substitute for coal or replace the use of coal in any other way?
Hope this question is more to the liking of this stack exchange.
There is not an abundance of national coal however rivers and ocean could allow for importation of coal.
technology hard-science steampunk
technology hard-science steampunk
asked 5 hours ago
Echo61505Echo61505
766
asked 5 hours ago
Echo61505Echo61505
766
edited 3 hours ago
Echo61505
asked 5 hours ago
Echo61505Echo61505
766
asked 5 hours ago
Echo61505Echo61505
766
asked 5 hours ago
Echo61505Echo61505
766
766
$begingroup$
Not in the way you asked the question, absolutely not. If it wasn't done back then, it can't be done with 19th century technology, that would be a paradox. But I assume you dont mean literally 19th century technology but something else? Perhaps instead of asking this question, describe what you want to do first and then tell us the exact part, details are king here, that you are unsure about or don't know how to do.
$endgroup$
– Raditz_35
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not with solar panels, no, but remember that coal IS solar indirectly.
$endgroup$
– Renan
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Sorry, but could you state directly what "h se" is, because when I google it, the results are confusing and not related to your question.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
In daytime they had daylight, and solar power does not work at night (at least not with any imaginable technology of the time), this would put a crimp in the development of electric light...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Dann that typo..
$endgroup$
– Echo61505
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Not in the way you asked the question, absolutely not. If it wasn't done back then, it can't be done with 19th century technology, that would be a paradox. But I assume you dont mean literally 19th century technology but something else? Perhaps instead of asking this question, describe what you want to do first and then tell us the exact part, details are king here, that you are unsure about or don't know how to do.
$endgroup$
– Raditz_35
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not with solar panels, no, but remember that coal IS solar indirectly.
$endgroup$
– Renan
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Sorry, but could you state directly what "h se" is, because when I google it, the results are confusing and not related to your question.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
In daytime they had daylight, and solar power does not work at night (at least not with any imaginable technology of the time), this would put a crimp in the development of electric light...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Dann that typo..
$endgroup$
– Echo61505
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not in the way you asked the question, absolutely not. If it wasn't done back then, it can't be done with 19th century technology, that would be a paradox. But I assume you dont mean literally 19th century technology but something else? Perhaps instead of asking this question, describe what you want to do first and then tell us the exact part, details are king here, that you are unsure about or don't know how to do.
$endgroup$
– Raditz_35
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not in the way you asked the question, absolutely not. If it wasn't done back then, it can't be done with 19th century technology, that would be a paradox. But I assume you dont mean literally 19th century technology but something else? Perhaps instead of asking this question, describe what you want to do first and then tell us the exact part, details are king here, that you are unsure about or don't know how to do.
$endgroup$
– Raditz_35
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not with solar panels, no, but remember that coal IS solar indirectly.
$endgroup$
– Renan
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not with solar panels, no, but remember that coal IS solar indirectly.
$endgroup$
– Renan
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Sorry, but could you state directly what "h se" is, because when I google it, the results are confusing and not related to your question.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Sorry, but could you state directly what "h se" is, because when I google it, the results are confusing and not related to your question.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
In daytime they had daylight, and solar power does not work at night (at least not with any imaginable technology of the time), this would put a crimp in the development of electric light...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
In daytime they had daylight, and solar power does not work at night (at least not with any imaginable technology of the time), this would put a crimp in the development of electric light...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Dann that typo..
$endgroup$
– Echo61505
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Dann that typo..
$endgroup$
– Echo61505
3 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Yes, they could. You "just" need a large mirror to concentrate sunlight on a boiler to produce the steam. Power plants that use this principle are in use today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility
The first problem you have is with economy. Burning coal is just way too cheap if you have it available, and it's much easier to get a few megawatts of heat out of burning coal than it is to get the same amount of heat from mirrors. Simply because you need about one square meter of mirror for each kilowatt of sunlight you want to collect, and the mirror needs to be continuously adjusted to the sun. A single man shoveling coal into an engine produces much, much more than just a single kilowatt of heat...
You can offset the economy problem by making coal hard-to-get in your country.
However, the second problem remains: Efficiency. Early steam engines were brutally inefficient, turning only 1% or 2% (Watt's optimized version!) of the heat into actual mechanical work. So, if you have a giant 10x10m mirror ($100m^2$), you only get 1kW or 2kW of usable power output. Anything that requires more energy than that quickly becomes infeasible to power with the many, enormous mirrors you need, which all require man-power to adjust to the sun continuously.
Of course, you can offset this by a) allowing close to modern steam turbines, and b) fancy clockworks that automagically adjust the mirrors. Nevertheless, it remains difficult to get the power from the power plants to where it's actually needed.
answered 4 hours ago
cmastercmaster
3,552815
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Given that the primary motive for building power plants was electric light, and the mirrors don't work at night...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Any use of electricity or any other use of coal is what I am asking from powering a city to a solar cooker would be relevant. On the other hand I do get that the main use of electricity for the majority of that time period is electrical lighting. Not every area would be connected to water ways so while demand may not realistically exist in every city without the right political decisions some parts of the nation could still prefer a solar option.
$endgroup$
– Echo61505
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not just lights, things like pumps, which need to be run 24/7 don't work with solar either.
$endgroup$
– John
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. Coal works as power source because it is solar energy, concentrated, in a convenient form (rocks). Solar power is simply too disperse to be a power source to early, inefficient, steam machines
answered 2 hours ago
GeronimoGeronimo
90439
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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active
oldest
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2 Answers
2
active
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active
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$begingroup$
Yes, they could. You "just" need a large mirror to concentrate sunlight on a boiler to produce the steam. Power plants that use this principle are in use today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility
The first problem you have is with economy. Burning coal is just way too cheap if you have it available, and it's much easier to get a few megawatts of heat out of burning coal than it is to get the same amount of heat from mirrors. Simply because you need about one square meter of mirror for each kilowatt of sunlight you want to collect, and the mirror needs to be continuously adjusted to the sun. A single man shoveling coal into an engine produces much, much more than just a single kilowatt of heat...
You can offset the economy problem by making coal hard-to-get in your country.
However, the second problem remains: Efficiency. Early steam engines were brutally inefficient, turning only 1% or 2% (Watt's optimized version!) of the heat into actual mechanical work. So, if you have a giant 10x10m mirror ($100m^2$), you only get 1kW or 2kW of usable power output. Anything that requires more energy than that quickly becomes infeasible to power with the many, enormous mirrors you need, which all require man-power to adjust to the sun continuously.
Of course, you can offset this by a) allowing close to modern steam turbines, and b) fancy clockworks that automagically adjust the mirrors. Nevertheless, it remains difficult to get the power from the power plants to where it's actually needed.
answered 4 hours ago
cmastercmaster
3,552815
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Given that the primary motive for building power plants was electric light, and the mirrors don't work at night...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Any use of electricity or any other use of coal is what I am asking from powering a city to a solar cooker would be relevant. On the other hand I do get that the main use of electricity for the majority of that time period is electrical lighting. Not every area would be connected to water ways so while demand may not realistically exist in every city without the right political decisions some parts of the nation could still prefer a solar option.
$endgroup$
– Echo61505
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not just lights, things like pumps, which need to be run 24/7 don't work with solar either.
$endgroup$
– John
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, they could. You "just" need a large mirror to concentrate sunlight on a boiler to produce the steam. Power plants that use this principle are in use today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility
The first problem you have is with economy. Burning coal is just way too cheap if you have it available, and it's much easier to get a few megawatts of heat out of burning coal than it is to get the same amount of heat from mirrors. Simply because you need about one square meter of mirror for each kilowatt of sunlight you want to collect, and the mirror needs to be continuously adjusted to the sun. A single man shoveling coal into an engine produces much, much more than just a single kilowatt of heat...
You can offset the economy problem by making coal hard-to-get in your country.
However, the second problem remains: Efficiency. Early steam engines were brutally inefficient, turning only 1% or 2% (Watt's optimized version!) of the heat into actual mechanical work. So, if you have a giant 10x10m mirror ($100m^2$), you only get 1kW or 2kW of usable power output. Anything that requires more energy than that quickly becomes infeasible to power with the many, enormous mirrors you need, which all require man-power to adjust to the sun continuously.
Of course, you can offset this by a) allowing close to modern steam turbines, and b) fancy clockworks that automagically adjust the mirrors. Nevertheless, it remains difficult to get the power from the power plants to where it's actually needed.
answered 4 hours ago
cmastercmaster
3,552815
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Given that the primary motive for building power plants was electric light, and the mirrors don't work at night...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Any use of electricity or any other use of coal is what I am asking from powering a city to a solar cooker would be relevant. On the other hand I do get that the main use of electricity for the majority of that time period is electrical lighting. Not every area would be connected to water ways so while demand may not realistically exist in every city without the right political decisions some parts of the nation could still prefer a solar option.
$endgroup$
– Echo61505
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not just lights, things like pumps, which need to be run 24/7 don't work with solar either.
$endgroup$
– John
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, they could. You "just" need a large mirror to concentrate sunlight on a boiler to produce the steam. Power plants that use this principle are in use today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility
The first problem you have is with economy. Burning coal is just way too cheap if you have it available, and it's much easier to get a few megawatts of heat out of burning coal than it is to get the same amount of heat from mirrors. Simply because you need about one square meter of mirror for each kilowatt of sunlight you want to collect, and the mirror needs to be continuously adjusted to the sun. A single man shoveling coal into an engine produces much, much more than just a single kilowatt of heat...
You can offset the economy problem by making coal hard-to-get in your country.
However, the second problem remains: Efficiency. Early steam engines were brutally inefficient, turning only 1% or 2% (Watt's optimized version!) of the heat into actual mechanical work. So, if you have a giant 10x10m mirror ($100m^2$), you only get 1kW or 2kW of usable power output. Anything that requires more energy than that quickly becomes infeasible to power with the many, enormous mirrors you need, which all require man-power to adjust to the sun continuously.
Of course, you can offset this by a) allowing close to modern steam turbines, and b) fancy clockworks that automagically adjust the mirrors. Nevertheless, it remains difficult to get the power from the power plants to where it's actually needed.
answered 4 hours ago
cmastercmaster
3,552815
$endgroup$
Yes, they could. You "just" need a large mirror to concentrate sunlight on a boiler to produce the steam. Power plants that use this principle are in use today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility
The first problem you have is with economy. Burning coal is just way too cheap if you have it available, and it's much easier to get a few megawatts of heat out of burning coal than it is to get the same amount of heat from mirrors. Simply because you need about one square meter of mirror for each kilowatt of sunlight you want to collect, and the mirror needs to be continuously adjusted to the sun. A single man shoveling coal into an engine produces much, much more than just a single kilowatt of heat...
You can offset the economy problem by making coal hard-to-get in your country.
However, the second problem remains: Efficiency. Early steam engines were brutally inefficient, turning only 1% or 2% (Watt's optimized version!) of the heat into actual mechanical work. So, if you have a giant 10x10m mirror ($100m^2$), you only get 1kW or 2kW of usable power output. Anything that requires more energy than that quickly becomes infeasible to power with the many, enormous mirrors you need, which all require man-power to adjust to the sun continuously.
Of course, you can offset this by a) allowing close to modern steam turbines, and b) fancy clockworks that automagically adjust the mirrors. Nevertheless, it remains difficult to get the power from the power plants to where it's actually needed.
answered 4 hours ago
cmastercmaster
3,552815
answered 4 hours ago
cmastercmaster
3,552815
answered 4 hours ago
cmastercmaster
3,552815
answered 4 hours ago
cmastercmaster
3,552815
3,552815
$begingroup$
Given that the primary motive for building power plants was electric light, and the mirrors don't work at night...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Any use of electricity or any other use of coal is what I am asking from powering a city to a solar cooker would be relevant. On the other hand I do get that the main use of electricity for the majority of that time period is electrical lighting. Not every area would be connected to water ways so while demand may not realistically exist in every city without the right political decisions some parts of the nation could still prefer a solar option.
$endgroup$
– Echo61505
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not just lights, things like pumps, which need to be run 24/7 don't work with solar either.
$endgroup$
– John
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Given that the primary motive for building power plants was electric light, and the mirrors don't work at night...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Any use of electricity or any other use of coal is what I am asking from powering a city to a solar cooker would be relevant. On the other hand I do get that the main use of electricity for the majority of that time period is electrical lighting. Not every area would be connected to water ways so while demand may not realistically exist in every city without the right political decisions some parts of the nation could still prefer a solar option.
$endgroup$
– Echo61505
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not just lights, things like pumps, which need to be run 24/7 don't work with solar either.
$endgroup$
– John
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Given that the primary motive for building power plants was electric light, and the mirrors don't work at night...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Given that the primary motive for building power plants was electric light, and the mirrors don't work at night...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Any use of electricity or any other use of coal is what I am asking from powering a city to a solar cooker would be relevant. On the other hand I do get that the main use of electricity for the majority of that time period is electrical lighting. Not every area would be connected to water ways so while demand may not realistically exist in every city without the right political decisions some parts of the nation could still prefer a solar option.
$endgroup$
– Echo61505
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Any use of electricity or any other use of coal is what I am asking from powering a city to a solar cooker would be relevant. On the other hand I do get that the main use of electricity for the majority of that time period is electrical lighting. Not every area would be connected to water ways so while demand may not realistically exist in every city without the right political decisions some parts of the nation could still prefer a solar option.
$endgroup$
– Echo61505
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not just lights, things like pumps, which need to be run 24/7 don't work with solar either.
$endgroup$
– John
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not just lights, things like pumps, which need to be run 24/7 don't work with solar either.
$endgroup$
– John
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. Coal works as power source because it is solar energy, concentrated, in a convenient form (rocks). Solar power is simply too disperse to be a power source to early, inefficient, steam machines
answered 2 hours ago
GeronimoGeronimo
90439
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. Coal works as power source because it is solar energy, concentrated, in a convenient form (rocks). Solar power is simply too disperse to be a power source to early, inefficient, steam machines
answered 2 hours ago
GeronimoGeronimo
90439
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. Coal works as power source because it is solar energy, concentrated, in a convenient form (rocks). Solar power is simply too disperse to be a power source to early, inefficient, steam machines
answered 2 hours ago
GeronimoGeronimo
90439
$endgroup$
No. Coal works as power source because it is solar energy, concentrated, in a convenient form (rocks). Solar power is simply too disperse to be a power source to early, inefficient, steam machines
answered 2 hours ago
GeronimoGeronimo
90439
answered 2 hours ago
GeronimoGeronimo
90439
answered 2 hours ago
GeronimoGeronimo
90439
answered 2 hours ago
GeronimoGeronimo
90439
90439
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Not in the way you asked the question, absolutely not. If it wasn't done back then, it can't be done with 19th century technology, that would be a paradox. But I assume you dont mean literally 19th century technology but something else? Perhaps instead of asking this question, describe what you want to do first and then tell us the exact part, details are king here, that you are unsure about or don't know how to do.
$endgroup$
– Raditz_35
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not with solar panels, no, but remember that coal IS solar indirectly.
$endgroup$
– Renan
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Sorry, but could you state directly what "h se" is, because when I google it, the results are confusing and not related to your question.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
In daytime they had daylight, and solar power does not work at night (at least not with any imaginable technology of the time), this would put a crimp in the development of electric light...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Dann that typo..
$endgroup$
– Echo61505
3 hours ago