Can Mage Hand drop Magic Stones on an enemy?












8












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Can a warlock cast magic stone on 3 pebbles as a bonus action then subsequently cast mage hand to fly the stones over an enemy and drop them to deal 3d6 damage on hit? If so, what, if any, would be the modifiers applied to them? If not, then please explain why.










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$endgroup$

















    8












    $begingroup$


    Can a warlock cast magic stone on 3 pebbles as a bonus action then subsequently cast mage hand to fly the stones over an enemy and drop them to deal 3d6 damage on hit? If so, what, if any, would be the modifiers applied to them? If not, then please explain why.










    share|improve this question











    $endgroup$















      8












      8








      8





      $begingroup$


      Can a warlock cast magic stone on 3 pebbles as a bonus action then subsequently cast mage hand to fly the stones over an enemy and drop them to deal 3d6 damage on hit? If so, what, if any, would be the modifiers applied to them? If not, then please explain why.










      share|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      Can a warlock cast magic stone on 3 pebbles as a bonus action then subsequently cast mage hand to fly the stones over an enemy and drop them to deal 3d6 damage on hit? If so, what, if any, would be the modifiers applied to them? If not, then please explain why.







      dnd-5e spells cantrips






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      share|improve this question








      edited 5 hours ago









      Rubiksmoose

      50.2k7247380




      50.2k7247380










      asked 8 hours ago









      gareth the elfgareth the elf

      5251716




      5251716






















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          23












          $begingroup$

          Mage Hand cannot do this



          There are no rules that allow things to be dropped to deal damage. A GM may allow it (and this question reveals the lack of rules for this situation while this question discusses how non damaging a small object like a pebble would likely be.), but you would not use the modifiers from the spell because:




          You or someone else can make a ranged spell attack with one of the pebbles by throwing it or hurling it.




          Not only is the mage hand not "someone else" (it's a spell effect), dropping it doesn't qualify and mage hand is unable to make attacks...




          The hand can't attack, activate magic items, or carry more than 10 pounds.




          Even dropping the rocks should be considered an attack which makes it impossible for a mage hand to accomplish.



          If your GM does allow it, it will be up to them what modifiers to use.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Let us continue this discussion in chat.
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            3 hours ago



















          14












          $begingroup$

          No. Magic stone requires an attack to deal damage, and mage hand can't attack.



          From the description of the magic stone cantrip:




          You or someone else can make a ranged spell attack with one of the pebbles by throwing it or hurling it with a sling. [...] On a hit, the target takes bludgeoning damage equal to 1d6 + your spellcasting ability modifier.




          From the description of the mage hand cantrip:




          The hand can't attack, activate magic items, or carry more than 10 pounds.




          A generous DM might allow the trick. He'd have to define the mechanics - but 3 * (1d6 + spellcasting ability modifier) damage seems way too much for a 1-round cantrip routine.






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          Bash is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          $endgroup$





















            -5












            $begingroup$

            First I test the "drop stuff from the mage hand range" and then apply it to the D&D gameplay.



            Physics!



            Dropping a 4kg stone from 7 metres (2 metres enemy height) roughly has 240J energy.



            per http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/energies.htm



            That is roughly the speed of a fastball travelling at 100mi/h which means quite a lot of energy.



            If You could reliably hit someone unprotected from the top while they're not paying attention, you could reliably take them out.



            I would allow it, but any headgear like helmets would greatly diminish the effectiveness of this (prevents the knockout), and while a human, elf or halfling head would be vulnerable, a giant, troll or orc would not.



            Also, I would not deal damage. It would not be usable in combat. At all.
            For narrative reasons a surprised person would be susceptible. A great way to start off the fight. Also, 4kg stones might become a rarity, I mean if it's 2kg, the energy is to small to cause much damage, and at 5 it's too heavy to lift.



            Imagine a mason story that once during a war there was legislation to remove over-2kg and sub-10kg paving stones by cracking them due to prevalence of mages dropping stuff on peoples heads.



            Also, a "morningstar ball" weighing 4kg might be a mage hand weapon of choice.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$









            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Using physics to justify D&D rules, especially involving magic, just doesn't work.
              $endgroup$
              – Rubiksmoose
              2 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              I disagree. D&D is a kind of a universe and it has gravity (in most places anyway) and using physics to test if this is even possible is a very nice thing IMO. You shouldn't break players out of the game "just because". You can kill people by suffocating them with carbon monoxide while they're sleeping in a tavern, so you can drop stones on their heads. Depends on the DM of course but that's how I ruled when those things popped up.
              $endgroup$
              – Gensys LTD
              2 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              (response to deleted comment) It wouldn't work in combat because: 1) in combat, creatures are aware of what's happening and are moving about. 2) they are aware of the players and see the mage and see the stone as it has to be within 9m from the caster. 3) It's not nible enough to actually "throw" the stone, it's just dropping it from a certain height as there's no significant speed the stone gets from the mage hand itself.
              $endgroup$
              – Gensys LTD
              2 hours ago













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            3 Answers
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            3 Answers
            3






            active

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            active

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            23












            $begingroup$

            Mage Hand cannot do this



            There are no rules that allow things to be dropped to deal damage. A GM may allow it (and this question reveals the lack of rules for this situation while this question discusses how non damaging a small object like a pebble would likely be.), but you would not use the modifiers from the spell because:




            You or someone else can make a ranged spell attack with one of the pebbles by throwing it or hurling it.




            Not only is the mage hand not "someone else" (it's a spell effect), dropping it doesn't qualify and mage hand is unable to make attacks...




            The hand can't attack, activate magic items, or carry more than 10 pounds.




            Even dropping the rocks should be considered an attack which makes it impossible for a mage hand to accomplish.



            If your GM does allow it, it will be up to them what modifiers to use.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Let us continue this discussion in chat.
              $endgroup$
              – Rubiksmoose
              3 hours ago
















            23












            $begingroup$

            Mage Hand cannot do this



            There are no rules that allow things to be dropped to deal damage. A GM may allow it (and this question reveals the lack of rules for this situation while this question discusses how non damaging a small object like a pebble would likely be.), but you would not use the modifiers from the spell because:




            You or someone else can make a ranged spell attack with one of the pebbles by throwing it or hurling it.




            Not only is the mage hand not "someone else" (it's a spell effect), dropping it doesn't qualify and mage hand is unable to make attacks...




            The hand can't attack, activate magic items, or carry more than 10 pounds.




            Even dropping the rocks should be considered an attack which makes it impossible for a mage hand to accomplish.



            If your GM does allow it, it will be up to them what modifiers to use.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Let us continue this discussion in chat.
              $endgroup$
              – Rubiksmoose
              3 hours ago














            23












            23








            23





            $begingroup$

            Mage Hand cannot do this



            There are no rules that allow things to be dropped to deal damage. A GM may allow it (and this question reveals the lack of rules for this situation while this question discusses how non damaging a small object like a pebble would likely be.), but you would not use the modifiers from the spell because:




            You or someone else can make a ranged spell attack with one of the pebbles by throwing it or hurling it.




            Not only is the mage hand not "someone else" (it's a spell effect), dropping it doesn't qualify and mage hand is unable to make attacks...




            The hand can't attack, activate magic items, or carry more than 10 pounds.




            Even dropping the rocks should be considered an attack which makes it impossible for a mage hand to accomplish.



            If your GM does allow it, it will be up to them what modifiers to use.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            Mage Hand cannot do this



            There are no rules that allow things to be dropped to deal damage. A GM may allow it (and this question reveals the lack of rules for this situation while this question discusses how non damaging a small object like a pebble would likely be.), but you would not use the modifiers from the spell because:




            You or someone else can make a ranged spell attack with one of the pebbles by throwing it or hurling it.




            Not only is the mage hand not "someone else" (it's a spell effect), dropping it doesn't qualify and mage hand is unable to make attacks...




            The hand can't attack, activate magic items, or carry more than 10 pounds.




            Even dropping the rocks should be considered an attack which makes it impossible for a mage hand to accomplish.



            If your GM does allow it, it will be up to them what modifiers to use.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 5 hours ago

























            answered 8 hours ago









            David CoffronDavid Coffron

            33.9k3115235




            33.9k3115235












            • $begingroup$
              Let us continue this discussion in chat.
              $endgroup$
              – Rubiksmoose
              3 hours ago


















            • $begingroup$
              Let us continue this discussion in chat.
              $endgroup$
              – Rubiksmoose
              3 hours ago
















            $begingroup$
            Let us continue this discussion in chat.
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            3 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            Let us continue this discussion in chat.
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            3 hours ago













            14












            $begingroup$

            No. Magic stone requires an attack to deal damage, and mage hand can't attack.



            From the description of the magic stone cantrip:




            You or someone else can make a ranged spell attack with one of the pebbles by throwing it or hurling it with a sling. [...] On a hit, the target takes bludgeoning damage equal to 1d6 + your spellcasting ability modifier.




            From the description of the mage hand cantrip:




            The hand can't attack, activate magic items, or carry more than 10 pounds.




            A generous DM might allow the trick. He'd have to define the mechanics - but 3 * (1d6 + spellcasting ability modifier) damage seems way too much for a 1-round cantrip routine.






            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            Bash is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






            $endgroup$


















              14












              $begingroup$

              No. Magic stone requires an attack to deal damage, and mage hand can't attack.



              From the description of the magic stone cantrip:




              You or someone else can make a ranged spell attack with one of the pebbles by throwing it or hurling it with a sling. [...] On a hit, the target takes bludgeoning damage equal to 1d6 + your spellcasting ability modifier.




              From the description of the mage hand cantrip:




              The hand can't attack, activate magic items, or carry more than 10 pounds.




              A generous DM might allow the trick. He'd have to define the mechanics - but 3 * (1d6 + spellcasting ability modifier) damage seems way too much for a 1-round cantrip routine.






              share|improve this answer










              New contributor




              Bash is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.






              $endgroup$
















                14












                14








                14





                $begingroup$

                No. Magic stone requires an attack to deal damage, and mage hand can't attack.



                From the description of the magic stone cantrip:




                You or someone else can make a ranged spell attack with one of the pebbles by throwing it or hurling it with a sling. [...] On a hit, the target takes bludgeoning damage equal to 1d6 + your spellcasting ability modifier.




                From the description of the mage hand cantrip:




                The hand can't attack, activate magic items, or carry more than 10 pounds.




                A generous DM might allow the trick. He'd have to define the mechanics - but 3 * (1d6 + spellcasting ability modifier) damage seems way too much for a 1-round cantrip routine.






                share|improve this answer










                New contributor




                Bash is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                $endgroup$



                No. Magic stone requires an attack to deal damage, and mage hand can't attack.



                From the description of the magic stone cantrip:




                You or someone else can make a ranged spell attack with one of the pebbles by throwing it or hurling it with a sling. [...] On a hit, the target takes bludgeoning damage equal to 1d6 + your spellcasting ability modifier.




                From the description of the mage hand cantrip:




                The hand can't attack, activate magic items, or carry more than 10 pounds.




                A generous DM might allow the trick. He'd have to define the mechanics - but 3 * (1d6 + spellcasting ability modifier) damage seems way too much for a 1-round cantrip routine.







                share|improve this answer










                New contributor




                Bash is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited 2 hours ago









                V2Blast

                20.2k357127




                20.2k357127






                New contributor




                Bash is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                answered 8 hours ago









                BashBash

                1956




                1956




                New contributor




                Bash is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.





                New contributor





                Bash is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                Bash is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.























                    -5












                    $begingroup$

                    First I test the "drop stuff from the mage hand range" and then apply it to the D&D gameplay.



                    Physics!



                    Dropping a 4kg stone from 7 metres (2 metres enemy height) roughly has 240J energy.



                    per http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/energies.htm



                    That is roughly the speed of a fastball travelling at 100mi/h which means quite a lot of energy.



                    If You could reliably hit someone unprotected from the top while they're not paying attention, you could reliably take them out.



                    I would allow it, but any headgear like helmets would greatly diminish the effectiveness of this (prevents the knockout), and while a human, elf or halfling head would be vulnerable, a giant, troll or orc would not.



                    Also, I would not deal damage. It would not be usable in combat. At all.
                    For narrative reasons a surprised person would be susceptible. A great way to start off the fight. Also, 4kg stones might become a rarity, I mean if it's 2kg, the energy is to small to cause much damage, and at 5 it's too heavy to lift.



                    Imagine a mason story that once during a war there was legislation to remove over-2kg and sub-10kg paving stones by cracking them due to prevalence of mages dropping stuff on peoples heads.



                    Also, a "morningstar ball" weighing 4kg might be a mage hand weapon of choice.






                    share|improve this answer











                    $endgroup$









                    • 1




                      $begingroup$
                      Using physics to justify D&D rules, especially involving magic, just doesn't work.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Rubiksmoose
                      2 hours ago










                    • $begingroup$
                      I disagree. D&D is a kind of a universe and it has gravity (in most places anyway) and using physics to test if this is even possible is a very nice thing IMO. You shouldn't break players out of the game "just because". You can kill people by suffocating them with carbon monoxide while they're sleeping in a tavern, so you can drop stones on their heads. Depends on the DM of course but that's how I ruled when those things popped up.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Gensys LTD
                      2 hours ago










                    • $begingroup$
                      (response to deleted comment) It wouldn't work in combat because: 1) in combat, creatures are aware of what's happening and are moving about. 2) they are aware of the players and see the mage and see the stone as it has to be within 9m from the caster. 3) It's not nible enough to actually "throw" the stone, it's just dropping it from a certain height as there's no significant speed the stone gets from the mage hand itself.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Gensys LTD
                      2 hours ago


















                    -5












                    $begingroup$

                    First I test the "drop stuff from the mage hand range" and then apply it to the D&D gameplay.



                    Physics!



                    Dropping a 4kg stone from 7 metres (2 metres enemy height) roughly has 240J energy.



                    per http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/energies.htm



                    That is roughly the speed of a fastball travelling at 100mi/h which means quite a lot of energy.



                    If You could reliably hit someone unprotected from the top while they're not paying attention, you could reliably take them out.



                    I would allow it, but any headgear like helmets would greatly diminish the effectiveness of this (prevents the knockout), and while a human, elf or halfling head would be vulnerable, a giant, troll or orc would not.



                    Also, I would not deal damage. It would not be usable in combat. At all.
                    For narrative reasons a surprised person would be susceptible. A great way to start off the fight. Also, 4kg stones might become a rarity, I mean if it's 2kg, the energy is to small to cause much damage, and at 5 it's too heavy to lift.



                    Imagine a mason story that once during a war there was legislation to remove over-2kg and sub-10kg paving stones by cracking them due to prevalence of mages dropping stuff on peoples heads.



                    Also, a "morningstar ball" weighing 4kg might be a mage hand weapon of choice.






                    share|improve this answer











                    $endgroup$









                    • 1




                      $begingroup$
                      Using physics to justify D&D rules, especially involving magic, just doesn't work.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Rubiksmoose
                      2 hours ago










                    • $begingroup$
                      I disagree. D&D is a kind of a universe and it has gravity (in most places anyway) and using physics to test if this is even possible is a very nice thing IMO. You shouldn't break players out of the game "just because". You can kill people by suffocating them with carbon monoxide while they're sleeping in a tavern, so you can drop stones on their heads. Depends on the DM of course but that's how I ruled when those things popped up.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Gensys LTD
                      2 hours ago










                    • $begingroup$
                      (response to deleted comment) It wouldn't work in combat because: 1) in combat, creatures are aware of what's happening and are moving about. 2) they are aware of the players and see the mage and see the stone as it has to be within 9m from the caster. 3) It's not nible enough to actually "throw" the stone, it's just dropping it from a certain height as there's no significant speed the stone gets from the mage hand itself.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Gensys LTD
                      2 hours ago
















                    -5












                    -5








                    -5





                    $begingroup$

                    First I test the "drop stuff from the mage hand range" and then apply it to the D&D gameplay.



                    Physics!



                    Dropping a 4kg stone from 7 metres (2 metres enemy height) roughly has 240J energy.



                    per http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/energies.htm



                    That is roughly the speed of a fastball travelling at 100mi/h which means quite a lot of energy.



                    If You could reliably hit someone unprotected from the top while they're not paying attention, you could reliably take them out.



                    I would allow it, but any headgear like helmets would greatly diminish the effectiveness of this (prevents the knockout), and while a human, elf or halfling head would be vulnerable, a giant, troll or orc would not.



                    Also, I would not deal damage. It would not be usable in combat. At all.
                    For narrative reasons a surprised person would be susceptible. A great way to start off the fight. Also, 4kg stones might become a rarity, I mean if it's 2kg, the energy is to small to cause much damage, and at 5 it's too heavy to lift.



                    Imagine a mason story that once during a war there was legislation to remove over-2kg and sub-10kg paving stones by cracking them due to prevalence of mages dropping stuff on peoples heads.



                    Also, a "morningstar ball" weighing 4kg might be a mage hand weapon of choice.






                    share|improve this answer











                    $endgroup$



                    First I test the "drop stuff from the mage hand range" and then apply it to the D&D gameplay.



                    Physics!



                    Dropping a 4kg stone from 7 metres (2 metres enemy height) roughly has 240J energy.



                    per http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/energies.htm



                    That is roughly the speed of a fastball travelling at 100mi/h which means quite a lot of energy.



                    If You could reliably hit someone unprotected from the top while they're not paying attention, you could reliably take them out.



                    I would allow it, but any headgear like helmets would greatly diminish the effectiveness of this (prevents the knockout), and while a human, elf or halfling head would be vulnerable, a giant, troll or orc would not.



                    Also, I would not deal damage. It would not be usable in combat. At all.
                    For narrative reasons a surprised person would be susceptible. A great way to start off the fight. Also, 4kg stones might become a rarity, I mean if it's 2kg, the energy is to small to cause much damage, and at 5 it's too heavy to lift.



                    Imagine a mason story that once during a war there was legislation to remove over-2kg and sub-10kg paving stones by cracking them due to prevalence of mages dropping stuff on peoples heads.



                    Also, a "morningstar ball" weighing 4kg might be a mage hand weapon of choice.







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited 2 hours ago









                    V2Blast

                    20.2k357127




                    20.2k357127










                    answered 3 hours ago









                    Gensys LTDGensys LTD

                    14513




                    14513








                    • 1




                      $begingroup$
                      Using physics to justify D&D rules, especially involving magic, just doesn't work.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Rubiksmoose
                      2 hours ago










                    • $begingroup$
                      I disagree. D&D is a kind of a universe and it has gravity (in most places anyway) and using physics to test if this is even possible is a very nice thing IMO. You shouldn't break players out of the game "just because". You can kill people by suffocating them with carbon monoxide while they're sleeping in a tavern, so you can drop stones on their heads. Depends on the DM of course but that's how I ruled when those things popped up.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Gensys LTD
                      2 hours ago










                    • $begingroup$
                      (response to deleted comment) It wouldn't work in combat because: 1) in combat, creatures are aware of what's happening and are moving about. 2) they are aware of the players and see the mage and see the stone as it has to be within 9m from the caster. 3) It's not nible enough to actually "throw" the stone, it's just dropping it from a certain height as there's no significant speed the stone gets from the mage hand itself.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Gensys LTD
                      2 hours ago
















                    • 1




                      $begingroup$
                      Using physics to justify D&D rules, especially involving magic, just doesn't work.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Rubiksmoose
                      2 hours ago










                    • $begingroup$
                      I disagree. D&D is a kind of a universe and it has gravity (in most places anyway) and using physics to test if this is even possible is a very nice thing IMO. You shouldn't break players out of the game "just because". You can kill people by suffocating them with carbon monoxide while they're sleeping in a tavern, so you can drop stones on their heads. Depends on the DM of course but that's how I ruled when those things popped up.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Gensys LTD
                      2 hours ago










                    • $begingroup$
                      (response to deleted comment) It wouldn't work in combat because: 1) in combat, creatures are aware of what's happening and are moving about. 2) they are aware of the players and see the mage and see the stone as it has to be within 9m from the caster. 3) It's not nible enough to actually "throw" the stone, it's just dropping it from a certain height as there's no significant speed the stone gets from the mage hand itself.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Gensys LTD
                      2 hours ago










                    1




                    1




                    $begingroup$
                    Using physics to justify D&D rules, especially involving magic, just doesn't work.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Rubiksmoose
                    2 hours ago




                    $begingroup$
                    Using physics to justify D&D rules, especially involving magic, just doesn't work.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Rubiksmoose
                    2 hours ago












                    $begingroup$
                    I disagree. D&D is a kind of a universe and it has gravity (in most places anyway) and using physics to test if this is even possible is a very nice thing IMO. You shouldn't break players out of the game "just because". You can kill people by suffocating them with carbon monoxide while they're sleeping in a tavern, so you can drop stones on their heads. Depends on the DM of course but that's how I ruled when those things popped up.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Gensys LTD
                    2 hours ago




                    $begingroup$
                    I disagree. D&D is a kind of a universe and it has gravity (in most places anyway) and using physics to test if this is even possible is a very nice thing IMO. You shouldn't break players out of the game "just because". You can kill people by suffocating them with carbon monoxide while they're sleeping in a tavern, so you can drop stones on their heads. Depends on the DM of course but that's how I ruled when those things popped up.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Gensys LTD
                    2 hours ago












                    $begingroup$
                    (response to deleted comment) It wouldn't work in combat because: 1) in combat, creatures are aware of what's happening and are moving about. 2) they are aware of the players and see the mage and see the stone as it has to be within 9m from the caster. 3) It's not nible enough to actually "throw" the stone, it's just dropping it from a certain height as there's no significant speed the stone gets from the mage hand itself.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Gensys LTD
                    2 hours ago






                    $begingroup$
                    (response to deleted comment) It wouldn't work in combat because: 1) in combat, creatures are aware of what's happening and are moving about. 2) they are aware of the players and see the mage and see the stone as it has to be within 9m from the caster. 3) It's not nible enough to actually "throw" the stone, it's just dropping it from a certain height as there's no significant speed the stone gets from the mage hand itself.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Gensys LTD
                    2 hours ago




















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