Does the statement `int val = (++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j;` invoke undefined behavior?












11















Given the following program:



#include <stdio.h>
int main(void)
{
int i = 1, j = 2;
int val = (++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j;
printf("%dn", val); // prints 4
return 0;
}


The initialization of val seems like it could be hiding some undefined behavior, but I don't see any point at which an object is either modified more than once or modified and used without a sequence point in between. Could someone
either correct or corroborate me on this?










share|improve this question




















  • 4





    Is there a sequence point? Please see this answer which states there is one "Between the evaluations of the first operand of the conditional ?: operator and whichever of the second and third operands is evaluated (6.5.15)."

    – Weather Vane
    7 hours ago






  • 1





    You got 4. What did you expect?

    – Bob Jarvis
    7 hours ago











  • I expected 4. I don't think this code invokes UB, but I was told on another question that it does. Just wanted to eliminate any confusion as to whether that specific statement causes UB, and maybe get a better explanation that the one I provided in the question.

    – max1000001
    7 hours ago











  • the ternary expression guarantees the sequence point. I cannot find any reference to (++i > ++j) though. Is > a sequence point?

    – Jean-François Fabre
    7 hours ago






  • 4





    @Jean-FrançoisFabre No, but it doesn't need to be. There's no need for a sequence point between two changes of two different variables. ++i > ++i would be UB though.

    – sepp2k
    7 hours ago
















11















Given the following program:



#include <stdio.h>
int main(void)
{
int i = 1, j = 2;
int val = (++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j;
printf("%dn", val); // prints 4
return 0;
}


The initialization of val seems like it could be hiding some undefined behavior, but I don't see any point at which an object is either modified more than once or modified and used without a sequence point in between. Could someone
either correct or corroborate me on this?










share|improve this question




















  • 4





    Is there a sequence point? Please see this answer which states there is one "Between the evaluations of the first operand of the conditional ?: operator and whichever of the second and third operands is evaluated (6.5.15)."

    – Weather Vane
    7 hours ago






  • 1





    You got 4. What did you expect?

    – Bob Jarvis
    7 hours ago











  • I expected 4. I don't think this code invokes UB, but I was told on another question that it does. Just wanted to eliminate any confusion as to whether that specific statement causes UB, and maybe get a better explanation that the one I provided in the question.

    – max1000001
    7 hours ago











  • the ternary expression guarantees the sequence point. I cannot find any reference to (++i > ++j) though. Is > a sequence point?

    – Jean-François Fabre
    7 hours ago






  • 4





    @Jean-FrançoisFabre No, but it doesn't need to be. There's no need for a sequence point between two changes of two different variables. ++i > ++i would be UB though.

    – sepp2k
    7 hours ago














11












11








11








Given the following program:



#include <stdio.h>
int main(void)
{
int i = 1, j = 2;
int val = (++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j;
printf("%dn", val); // prints 4
return 0;
}


The initialization of val seems like it could be hiding some undefined behavior, but I don't see any point at which an object is either modified more than once or modified and used without a sequence point in between. Could someone
either correct or corroborate me on this?










share|improve this question
















Given the following program:



#include <stdio.h>
int main(void)
{
int i = 1, j = 2;
int val = (++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j;
printf("%dn", val); // prints 4
return 0;
}


The initialization of val seems like it could be hiding some undefined behavior, but I don't see any point at which an object is either modified more than once or modified and used without a sequence point in between. Could someone
either correct or corroborate me on this?







c ternary-operator sequence-points






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 6 hours ago









machine_1

2,47821232




2,47821232










asked 7 hours ago









max1000001max1000001

1139




1139








  • 4





    Is there a sequence point? Please see this answer which states there is one "Between the evaluations of the first operand of the conditional ?: operator and whichever of the second and third operands is evaluated (6.5.15)."

    – Weather Vane
    7 hours ago






  • 1





    You got 4. What did you expect?

    – Bob Jarvis
    7 hours ago











  • I expected 4. I don't think this code invokes UB, but I was told on another question that it does. Just wanted to eliminate any confusion as to whether that specific statement causes UB, and maybe get a better explanation that the one I provided in the question.

    – max1000001
    7 hours ago











  • the ternary expression guarantees the sequence point. I cannot find any reference to (++i > ++j) though. Is > a sequence point?

    – Jean-François Fabre
    7 hours ago






  • 4





    @Jean-FrançoisFabre No, but it doesn't need to be. There's no need for a sequence point between two changes of two different variables. ++i > ++i would be UB though.

    – sepp2k
    7 hours ago














  • 4





    Is there a sequence point? Please see this answer which states there is one "Between the evaluations of the first operand of the conditional ?: operator and whichever of the second and third operands is evaluated (6.5.15)."

    – Weather Vane
    7 hours ago






  • 1





    You got 4. What did you expect?

    – Bob Jarvis
    7 hours ago











  • I expected 4. I don't think this code invokes UB, but I was told on another question that it does. Just wanted to eliminate any confusion as to whether that specific statement causes UB, and maybe get a better explanation that the one I provided in the question.

    – max1000001
    7 hours ago











  • the ternary expression guarantees the sequence point. I cannot find any reference to (++i > ++j) though. Is > a sequence point?

    – Jean-François Fabre
    7 hours ago






  • 4





    @Jean-FrançoisFabre No, but it doesn't need to be. There's no need for a sequence point between two changes of two different variables. ++i > ++i would be UB though.

    – sepp2k
    7 hours ago








4




4





Is there a sequence point? Please see this answer which states there is one "Between the evaluations of the first operand of the conditional ?: operator and whichever of the second and third operands is evaluated (6.5.15)."

– Weather Vane
7 hours ago





Is there a sequence point? Please see this answer which states there is one "Between the evaluations of the first operand of the conditional ?: operator and whichever of the second and third operands is evaluated (6.5.15)."

– Weather Vane
7 hours ago




1




1





You got 4. What did you expect?

– Bob Jarvis
7 hours ago





You got 4. What did you expect?

– Bob Jarvis
7 hours ago













I expected 4. I don't think this code invokes UB, but I was told on another question that it does. Just wanted to eliminate any confusion as to whether that specific statement causes UB, and maybe get a better explanation that the one I provided in the question.

– max1000001
7 hours ago





I expected 4. I don't think this code invokes UB, but I was told on another question that it does. Just wanted to eliminate any confusion as to whether that specific statement causes UB, and maybe get a better explanation that the one I provided in the question.

– max1000001
7 hours ago













the ternary expression guarantees the sequence point. I cannot find any reference to (++i > ++j) though. Is > a sequence point?

– Jean-François Fabre
7 hours ago





the ternary expression guarantees the sequence point. I cannot find any reference to (++i > ++j) though. Is > a sequence point?

– Jean-François Fabre
7 hours ago




4




4





@Jean-FrançoisFabre No, but it doesn't need to be. There's no need for a sequence point between two changes of two different variables. ++i > ++i would be UB though.

– sepp2k
7 hours ago





@Jean-FrançoisFabre No, but it doesn't need to be. There's no need for a sequence point between two changes of two different variables. ++i > ++i would be UB though.

– sepp2k
7 hours ago












3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















18














The behavior of this code is well defined.



The first expression in a conditional is guaranteed to be evaluated before either the second expression or the third expression, and only one of the second or third will be evaluated. This is described in section 6.5.15p4 of the C standard:




The first operand is evaluated; there is a sequence point
between its evaluation and the evaluation of the second or third
operand (whichever is evaluated). The second operand is evaluated
only if the first compares unequal to 0; the third operand is
evaluated only if the first compares equal to 0; the result is
the value of the second or third operand (whichever is
evaluated), converted to the type described below.




In the case of your expression:



int val = (++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j;


++i > ++j is evaluated first. The incremented values of i and j are used in the comparison, so it becomes 2 > 3. The result is false, so then ++j is evaluated and ++i is not. So the (again) incremented value of j (i.e. 4) is then assigned to val.






share|improve this answer



















  • 2





    Thank you for your detailed and direct answer!

    – max1000001
    7 hours ago



















3














There may be no UB in your program, but in the question:
Does the statement int val = (++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j; invoke undefined behavior?



The answer is yes. Either or both of the increment operations may overflow, since i and j are signed, in which case all bets are off.



Of course this doesn't happen in your full example because you've specified the values as small integers.






share|improve this answer



















  • 2





    I assure you that the question is not about signed integer overflow. It's about whether there is a sequence point between the first operand of the ternary operator and whichever wins from the second and the third operands.

    – machine_1
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    The question was about „some undefined behavior“ and reminders about data types beeing implementation specific are totally appropriate for such an open question. And a signed integer Flow is UB.

    – eckes
    2 hours ago



















3














too late, but maybe useful.



(++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j;


In the document ISO/IEC 9899:201xAnnex C(informative)Sequence points we find that there is a sequence point




Between the evaluations of the first operand of the conditional ?: operator and whichever of the second and third operands is evaluated




In order to be well defined behavior one must not modify 2 times (via side-effects) the same object between 2 sequence points.



In your expression the only conflict that could appear would be between the first and second ++i or ++j.



At every sequence point the value last stored in the object shall agree with that prescribed by the abstract machine (this is what you would compute on paper, like on a turing machine).



Quote from 5.1.2.3p3 Program execution




The presence of a sequence point between the evaluation of expressions A and B implies that every value computation and side effect associated with A is sequenced before every value computation and side effect associated with B.




When you have side-effects in your code, they are sequenced by different expressions. The rule says that between 2 sequence points you can permute these expressions as you wish.



For example. i = i++. Because none of the operators involved in this expression represent sequence points, you can permute the expressions that are side-effects as you want. The C language allows you to use any of these sequences



i = i; i = i+1; or i = i+1; i=i; or anything that provides the same result as the abstract semantics of computation asks for interpretation of this computation. The Standard ISO9899 defines the C language as abstract semantics.






share|improve this answer


























  • I think the part where you enumerate the modifications to i and j as "possible conflicts" adds something new and useful to the analysis. I hadn't thought of that, thanks!

    – max1000001
    6 hours ago











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3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes








3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









18














The behavior of this code is well defined.



The first expression in a conditional is guaranteed to be evaluated before either the second expression or the third expression, and only one of the second or third will be evaluated. This is described in section 6.5.15p4 of the C standard:




The first operand is evaluated; there is a sequence point
between its evaluation and the evaluation of the second or third
operand (whichever is evaluated). The second operand is evaluated
only if the first compares unequal to 0; the third operand is
evaluated only if the first compares equal to 0; the result is
the value of the second or third operand (whichever is
evaluated), converted to the type described below.




In the case of your expression:



int val = (++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j;


++i > ++j is evaluated first. The incremented values of i and j are used in the comparison, so it becomes 2 > 3. The result is false, so then ++j is evaluated and ++i is not. So the (again) incremented value of j (i.e. 4) is then assigned to val.






share|improve this answer



















  • 2





    Thank you for your detailed and direct answer!

    – max1000001
    7 hours ago
















18














The behavior of this code is well defined.



The first expression in a conditional is guaranteed to be evaluated before either the second expression or the third expression, and only one of the second or third will be evaluated. This is described in section 6.5.15p4 of the C standard:




The first operand is evaluated; there is a sequence point
between its evaluation and the evaluation of the second or third
operand (whichever is evaluated). The second operand is evaluated
only if the first compares unequal to 0; the third operand is
evaluated only if the first compares equal to 0; the result is
the value of the second or third operand (whichever is
evaluated), converted to the type described below.




In the case of your expression:



int val = (++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j;


++i > ++j is evaluated first. The incremented values of i and j are used in the comparison, so it becomes 2 > 3. The result is false, so then ++j is evaluated and ++i is not. So the (again) incremented value of j (i.e. 4) is then assigned to val.






share|improve this answer



















  • 2





    Thank you for your detailed and direct answer!

    – max1000001
    7 hours ago














18












18








18







The behavior of this code is well defined.



The first expression in a conditional is guaranteed to be evaluated before either the second expression or the third expression, and only one of the second or third will be evaluated. This is described in section 6.5.15p4 of the C standard:




The first operand is evaluated; there is a sequence point
between its evaluation and the evaluation of the second or third
operand (whichever is evaluated). The second operand is evaluated
only if the first compares unequal to 0; the third operand is
evaluated only if the first compares equal to 0; the result is
the value of the second or third operand (whichever is
evaluated), converted to the type described below.




In the case of your expression:



int val = (++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j;


++i > ++j is evaluated first. The incremented values of i and j are used in the comparison, so it becomes 2 > 3. The result is false, so then ++j is evaluated and ++i is not. So the (again) incremented value of j (i.e. 4) is then assigned to val.






share|improve this answer













The behavior of this code is well defined.



The first expression in a conditional is guaranteed to be evaluated before either the second expression or the third expression, and only one of the second or third will be evaluated. This is described in section 6.5.15p4 of the C standard:




The first operand is evaluated; there is a sequence point
between its evaluation and the evaluation of the second or third
operand (whichever is evaluated). The second operand is evaluated
only if the first compares unequal to 0; the third operand is
evaluated only if the first compares equal to 0; the result is
the value of the second or third operand (whichever is
evaluated), converted to the type described below.




In the case of your expression:



int val = (++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j;


++i > ++j is evaluated first. The incremented values of i and j are used in the comparison, so it becomes 2 > 3. The result is false, so then ++j is evaluated and ++i is not. So the (again) incremented value of j (i.e. 4) is then assigned to val.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 7 hours ago









dbushdbush

102k13106144




102k13106144








  • 2





    Thank you for your detailed and direct answer!

    – max1000001
    7 hours ago














  • 2





    Thank you for your detailed and direct answer!

    – max1000001
    7 hours ago








2




2





Thank you for your detailed and direct answer!

– max1000001
7 hours ago





Thank you for your detailed and direct answer!

– max1000001
7 hours ago













3














There may be no UB in your program, but in the question:
Does the statement int val = (++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j; invoke undefined behavior?



The answer is yes. Either or both of the increment operations may overflow, since i and j are signed, in which case all bets are off.



Of course this doesn't happen in your full example because you've specified the values as small integers.






share|improve this answer



















  • 2





    I assure you that the question is not about signed integer overflow. It's about whether there is a sequence point between the first operand of the ternary operator and whichever wins from the second and the third operands.

    – machine_1
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    The question was about „some undefined behavior“ and reminders about data types beeing implementation specific are totally appropriate for such an open question. And a signed integer Flow is UB.

    – eckes
    2 hours ago
















3














There may be no UB in your program, but in the question:
Does the statement int val = (++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j; invoke undefined behavior?



The answer is yes. Either or both of the increment operations may overflow, since i and j are signed, in which case all bets are off.



Of course this doesn't happen in your full example because you've specified the values as small integers.






share|improve this answer



















  • 2





    I assure you that the question is not about signed integer overflow. It's about whether there is a sequence point between the first operand of the ternary operator and whichever wins from the second and the third operands.

    – machine_1
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    The question was about „some undefined behavior“ and reminders about data types beeing implementation specific are totally appropriate for such an open question. And a signed integer Flow is UB.

    – eckes
    2 hours ago














3












3








3







There may be no UB in your program, but in the question:
Does the statement int val = (++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j; invoke undefined behavior?



The answer is yes. Either or both of the increment operations may overflow, since i and j are signed, in which case all bets are off.



Of course this doesn't happen in your full example because you've specified the values as small integers.






share|improve this answer













There may be no UB in your program, but in the question:
Does the statement int val = (++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j; invoke undefined behavior?



The answer is yes. Either or both of the increment operations may overflow, since i and j are signed, in which case all bets are off.



Of course this doesn't happen in your full example because you've specified the values as small integers.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 6 hours ago









Doug CurrieDoug Currie

35.8k77109




35.8k77109








  • 2





    I assure you that the question is not about signed integer overflow. It's about whether there is a sequence point between the first operand of the ternary operator and whichever wins from the second and the third operands.

    – machine_1
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    The question was about „some undefined behavior“ and reminders about data types beeing implementation specific are totally appropriate for such an open question. And a signed integer Flow is UB.

    – eckes
    2 hours ago














  • 2





    I assure you that the question is not about signed integer overflow. It's about whether there is a sequence point between the first operand of the ternary operator and whichever wins from the second and the third operands.

    – machine_1
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    The question was about „some undefined behavior“ and reminders about data types beeing implementation specific are totally appropriate for such an open question. And a signed integer Flow is UB.

    – eckes
    2 hours ago








2




2





I assure you that the question is not about signed integer overflow. It's about whether there is a sequence point between the first operand of the ternary operator and whichever wins from the second and the third operands.

– machine_1
5 hours ago





I assure you that the question is not about signed integer overflow. It's about whether there is a sequence point between the first operand of the ternary operator and whichever wins from the second and the third operands.

– machine_1
5 hours ago




1




1





The question was about „some undefined behavior“ and reminders about data types beeing implementation specific are totally appropriate for such an open question. And a signed integer Flow is UB.

– eckes
2 hours ago





The question was about „some undefined behavior“ and reminders about data types beeing implementation specific are totally appropriate for such an open question. And a signed integer Flow is UB.

– eckes
2 hours ago











3














too late, but maybe useful.



(++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j;


In the document ISO/IEC 9899:201xAnnex C(informative)Sequence points we find that there is a sequence point




Between the evaluations of the first operand of the conditional ?: operator and whichever of the second and third operands is evaluated




In order to be well defined behavior one must not modify 2 times (via side-effects) the same object between 2 sequence points.



In your expression the only conflict that could appear would be between the first and second ++i or ++j.



At every sequence point the value last stored in the object shall agree with that prescribed by the abstract machine (this is what you would compute on paper, like on a turing machine).



Quote from 5.1.2.3p3 Program execution




The presence of a sequence point between the evaluation of expressions A and B implies that every value computation and side effect associated with A is sequenced before every value computation and side effect associated with B.




When you have side-effects in your code, they are sequenced by different expressions. The rule says that between 2 sequence points you can permute these expressions as you wish.



For example. i = i++. Because none of the operators involved in this expression represent sequence points, you can permute the expressions that are side-effects as you want. The C language allows you to use any of these sequences



i = i; i = i+1; or i = i+1; i=i; or anything that provides the same result as the abstract semantics of computation asks for interpretation of this computation. The Standard ISO9899 defines the C language as abstract semantics.






share|improve this answer


























  • I think the part where you enumerate the modifications to i and j as "possible conflicts" adds something new and useful to the analysis. I hadn't thought of that, thanks!

    – max1000001
    6 hours ago
















3














too late, but maybe useful.



(++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j;


In the document ISO/IEC 9899:201xAnnex C(informative)Sequence points we find that there is a sequence point




Between the evaluations of the first operand of the conditional ?: operator and whichever of the second and third operands is evaluated




In order to be well defined behavior one must not modify 2 times (via side-effects) the same object between 2 sequence points.



In your expression the only conflict that could appear would be between the first and second ++i or ++j.



At every sequence point the value last stored in the object shall agree with that prescribed by the abstract machine (this is what you would compute on paper, like on a turing machine).



Quote from 5.1.2.3p3 Program execution




The presence of a sequence point between the evaluation of expressions A and B implies that every value computation and side effect associated with A is sequenced before every value computation and side effect associated with B.




When you have side-effects in your code, they are sequenced by different expressions. The rule says that between 2 sequence points you can permute these expressions as you wish.



For example. i = i++. Because none of the operators involved in this expression represent sequence points, you can permute the expressions that are side-effects as you want. The C language allows you to use any of these sequences



i = i; i = i+1; or i = i+1; i=i; or anything that provides the same result as the abstract semantics of computation asks for interpretation of this computation. The Standard ISO9899 defines the C language as abstract semantics.






share|improve this answer


























  • I think the part where you enumerate the modifications to i and j as "possible conflicts" adds something new and useful to the analysis. I hadn't thought of that, thanks!

    – max1000001
    6 hours ago














3












3








3







too late, but maybe useful.



(++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j;


In the document ISO/IEC 9899:201xAnnex C(informative)Sequence points we find that there is a sequence point




Between the evaluations of the first operand of the conditional ?: operator and whichever of the second and third operands is evaluated




In order to be well defined behavior one must not modify 2 times (via side-effects) the same object between 2 sequence points.



In your expression the only conflict that could appear would be between the first and second ++i or ++j.



At every sequence point the value last stored in the object shall agree with that prescribed by the abstract machine (this is what you would compute on paper, like on a turing machine).



Quote from 5.1.2.3p3 Program execution




The presence of a sequence point between the evaluation of expressions A and B implies that every value computation and side effect associated with A is sequenced before every value computation and side effect associated with B.




When you have side-effects in your code, they are sequenced by different expressions. The rule says that between 2 sequence points you can permute these expressions as you wish.



For example. i = i++. Because none of the operators involved in this expression represent sequence points, you can permute the expressions that are side-effects as you want. The C language allows you to use any of these sequences



i = i; i = i+1; or i = i+1; i=i; or anything that provides the same result as the abstract semantics of computation asks for interpretation of this computation. The Standard ISO9899 defines the C language as abstract semantics.






share|improve this answer















too late, but maybe useful.



(++i > ++j) ? ++i : ++j;


In the document ISO/IEC 9899:201xAnnex C(informative)Sequence points we find that there is a sequence point




Between the evaluations of the first operand of the conditional ?: operator and whichever of the second and third operands is evaluated




In order to be well defined behavior one must not modify 2 times (via side-effects) the same object between 2 sequence points.



In your expression the only conflict that could appear would be between the first and second ++i or ++j.



At every sequence point the value last stored in the object shall agree with that prescribed by the abstract machine (this is what you would compute on paper, like on a turing machine).



Quote from 5.1.2.3p3 Program execution




The presence of a sequence point between the evaluation of expressions A and B implies that every value computation and side effect associated with A is sequenced before every value computation and side effect associated with B.




When you have side-effects in your code, they are sequenced by different expressions. The rule says that between 2 sequence points you can permute these expressions as you wish.



For example. i = i++. Because none of the operators involved in this expression represent sequence points, you can permute the expressions that are side-effects as you want. The C language allows you to use any of these sequences



i = i; i = i+1; or i = i+1; i=i; or anything that provides the same result as the abstract semantics of computation asks for interpretation of this computation. The Standard ISO9899 defines the C language as abstract semantics.







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edited 6 hours ago

























answered 6 hours ago









alinsoaralinsoar

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  • I think the part where you enumerate the modifications to i and j as "possible conflicts" adds something new and useful to the analysis. I hadn't thought of that, thanks!

    – max1000001
    6 hours ago



















  • I think the part where you enumerate the modifications to i and j as "possible conflicts" adds something new and useful to the analysis. I hadn't thought of that, thanks!

    – max1000001
    6 hours ago

















I think the part where you enumerate the modifications to i and j as "possible conflicts" adds something new and useful to the analysis. I hadn't thought of that, thanks!

– max1000001
6 hours ago





I think the part where you enumerate the modifications to i and j as "possible conflicts" adds something new and useful to the analysis. I hadn't thought of that, thanks!

– max1000001
6 hours ago


















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