Gastric acid as a weapon
$begingroup$
The dragons in my fantasy world spit fluid from their mouths when threatened, which upon contact causes a burning sensation. I could have this liquid be standard venom, like modified saliva, but I wanted to shake things up a bit.
Could powerful stomach acid be spat as a means of defense and/or attack? My main concern is that it would be either too inefficient or too evolutionarily unlikely that another method of defense would be much more plausible to evolve.
I'm not aware of any duplicates to this question, apologies if I've missed one.
science-based creature-design evolution dragons natural-defenses
$endgroup$
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
The dragons in my fantasy world spit fluid from their mouths when threatened, which upon contact causes a burning sensation. I could have this liquid be standard venom, like modified saliva, but I wanted to shake things up a bit.
Could powerful stomach acid be spat as a means of defense and/or attack? My main concern is that it would be either too inefficient or too evolutionarily unlikely that another method of defense would be much more plausible to evolve.
I'm not aware of any duplicates to this question, apologies if I've missed one.
science-based creature-design evolution dragons natural-defenses
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I see you're sneaking in three extra questions there ... best practice is to ask one focused question in order to get one good answer. You can always ask follow up questions. But you knew that already! Please edit accordingly.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
@elemtilas Fair enough. Question edited.
$endgroup$
– SealBoi
14 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Great! Question answered!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
13 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Related (but not a dupe): worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/q/115804/21222
$endgroup$
– Renan
13 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
As another alternative, consider the Bombardier Beetle: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
10 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
The dragons in my fantasy world spit fluid from their mouths when threatened, which upon contact causes a burning sensation. I could have this liquid be standard venom, like modified saliva, but I wanted to shake things up a bit.
Could powerful stomach acid be spat as a means of defense and/or attack? My main concern is that it would be either too inefficient or too evolutionarily unlikely that another method of defense would be much more plausible to evolve.
I'm not aware of any duplicates to this question, apologies if I've missed one.
science-based creature-design evolution dragons natural-defenses
$endgroup$
The dragons in my fantasy world spit fluid from their mouths when threatened, which upon contact causes a burning sensation. I could have this liquid be standard venom, like modified saliva, but I wanted to shake things up a bit.
Could powerful stomach acid be spat as a means of defense and/or attack? My main concern is that it would be either too inefficient or too evolutionarily unlikely that another method of defense would be much more plausible to evolve.
I'm not aware of any duplicates to this question, apologies if I've missed one.
science-based creature-design evolution dragons natural-defenses
science-based creature-design evolution dragons natural-defenses
edited 14 hours ago
SealBoi
asked 14 hours ago
SealBoiSealBoi
6,99612570
6,99612570
$begingroup$
I see you're sneaking in three extra questions there ... best practice is to ask one focused question in order to get one good answer. You can always ask follow up questions. But you knew that already! Please edit accordingly.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
@elemtilas Fair enough. Question edited.
$endgroup$
– SealBoi
14 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Great! Question answered!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
13 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Related (but not a dupe): worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/q/115804/21222
$endgroup$
– Renan
13 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
As another alternative, consider the Bombardier Beetle: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
10 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
I see you're sneaking in three extra questions there ... best practice is to ask one focused question in order to get one good answer. You can always ask follow up questions. But you knew that already! Please edit accordingly.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
@elemtilas Fair enough. Question edited.
$endgroup$
– SealBoi
14 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Great! Question answered!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
13 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Related (but not a dupe): worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/q/115804/21222
$endgroup$
– Renan
13 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
As another alternative, consider the Bombardier Beetle: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
I see you're sneaking in three extra questions there ... best practice is to ask one focused question in order to get one good answer. You can always ask follow up questions. But you knew that already! Please edit accordingly.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I see you're sneaking in three extra questions there ... best practice is to ask one focused question in order to get one good answer. You can always ask follow up questions. But you knew that already! Please edit accordingly.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
@elemtilas Fair enough. Question edited.
$endgroup$
– SealBoi
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
@elemtilas Fair enough. Question edited.
$endgroup$
– SealBoi
14 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Great! Question answered!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
Great! Question answered!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
13 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Related (but not a dupe): worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/q/115804/21222
$endgroup$
– Renan
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
Related (but not a dupe): worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/q/115804/21222
$endgroup$
– Renan
13 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
As another alternative, consider the Bombardier Beetle: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
As another alternative, consider the Bombardier Beetle: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
10 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Could powerful stomach acid be spat as a means of defense and/or attack?
YES but...
The stomach of any organism using acid as digestive liquid is protected against the action of said acid by a thick layer of mucus. The esophagus doesn't have the luxury of this layer, and is thus much more vulnerable to the action of the acid. In fact humans can get esophagus perforation in such cases.
So, if you want your dragon to throw up acid, you need to coat its esophagus with a thick layer of mucus.
However... attacking after lunch would mean emptying one's stomach, which would result in a energetic loss. It is reasonable as a mean of "better hungry and alive than full and dead" for a lesser animal, but for a might dragon might be a bit against the rule of cool.
Better would be to have your dragon develop some pockets where acid can be stored and used at necessity, without the need to throw away a well deserved meal.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Presumably, this attack would be used as a means of acquiring lunch, so that would not be a problem. (It would even pre-digest your food a bit before swallowing it...)
$endgroup$
– Darrel Hoffman
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Also, the acid could be produced/stored in glands or bladders located just above the stomach along the esophagus; they could have an extra sphincter in their esophagus -- one above the acid bladders in addition to the one below. Normally, when digesting, the upper one closes and the lower one opens, and the bladders secrete a small portion of their contents to help digest food. When the dragon needs to spit though, the lower sphincter closes while the upper one opens, and the bladders disgorge a much greater volume of acid, creating a nasty acid spray.
$endgroup$
– Doktor J
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DoktorJ at which point you're basically replicating the spitting cobra except spitting acid instead of neurotoxins. And the cobra has a better mechanism as it doesn't have the stuff flowing through his body in places that could be damaged by it.
$endgroup$
– jwenting
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
YES
Gastric acid (HCl) can be used as a means of defense or attack. Acid weapons are known in nature. Ants spray formic acid, for example. Some birds, vutlures for example, vomit as means of defense. A number of creatures evert their stomachs in order to clear out yucky things they've eaten.
In the literature, we find this example of gastric acid magic.
Yum. So yes, your dragons could certainly do this as well. If they're large beasts, the effects will probably be quite astonishing.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Additionally, depending on the diet of the dragon, the acid may have to be more corrosive in order to digest exotic items. This makes sense in an evolutionary perspective.
$endgroup$
– Mathaddict
13 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Mathaddict Indeed! If you look into vultures as a real world exemplar upon which to model the dragon's behaviour, their gastric acid is terribly acidic compared with humans'.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
13 hours ago
7
$begingroup$
Love those "Would this crazy outlandish thing be possible somehow?" "Yes, it already exists in nature."
$endgroup$
– Eth
13 hours ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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active
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$begingroup$
Could powerful stomach acid be spat as a means of defense and/or attack?
YES but...
The stomach of any organism using acid as digestive liquid is protected against the action of said acid by a thick layer of mucus. The esophagus doesn't have the luxury of this layer, and is thus much more vulnerable to the action of the acid. In fact humans can get esophagus perforation in such cases.
So, if you want your dragon to throw up acid, you need to coat its esophagus with a thick layer of mucus.
However... attacking after lunch would mean emptying one's stomach, which would result in a energetic loss. It is reasonable as a mean of "better hungry and alive than full and dead" for a lesser animal, but for a might dragon might be a bit against the rule of cool.
Better would be to have your dragon develop some pockets where acid can be stored and used at necessity, without the need to throw away a well deserved meal.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Presumably, this attack would be used as a means of acquiring lunch, so that would not be a problem. (It would even pre-digest your food a bit before swallowing it...)
$endgroup$
– Darrel Hoffman
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Also, the acid could be produced/stored in glands or bladders located just above the stomach along the esophagus; they could have an extra sphincter in their esophagus -- one above the acid bladders in addition to the one below. Normally, when digesting, the upper one closes and the lower one opens, and the bladders secrete a small portion of their contents to help digest food. When the dragon needs to spit though, the lower sphincter closes while the upper one opens, and the bladders disgorge a much greater volume of acid, creating a nasty acid spray.
$endgroup$
– Doktor J
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DoktorJ at which point you're basically replicating the spitting cobra except spitting acid instead of neurotoxins. And the cobra has a better mechanism as it doesn't have the stuff flowing through his body in places that could be damaged by it.
$endgroup$
– jwenting
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Could powerful stomach acid be spat as a means of defense and/or attack?
YES but...
The stomach of any organism using acid as digestive liquid is protected against the action of said acid by a thick layer of mucus. The esophagus doesn't have the luxury of this layer, and is thus much more vulnerable to the action of the acid. In fact humans can get esophagus perforation in such cases.
So, if you want your dragon to throw up acid, you need to coat its esophagus with a thick layer of mucus.
However... attacking after lunch would mean emptying one's stomach, which would result in a energetic loss. It is reasonable as a mean of "better hungry and alive than full and dead" for a lesser animal, but for a might dragon might be a bit against the rule of cool.
Better would be to have your dragon develop some pockets where acid can be stored and used at necessity, without the need to throw away a well deserved meal.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Presumably, this attack would be used as a means of acquiring lunch, so that would not be a problem. (It would even pre-digest your food a bit before swallowing it...)
$endgroup$
– Darrel Hoffman
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Also, the acid could be produced/stored in glands or bladders located just above the stomach along the esophagus; they could have an extra sphincter in their esophagus -- one above the acid bladders in addition to the one below. Normally, when digesting, the upper one closes and the lower one opens, and the bladders secrete a small portion of their contents to help digest food. When the dragon needs to spit though, the lower sphincter closes while the upper one opens, and the bladders disgorge a much greater volume of acid, creating a nasty acid spray.
$endgroup$
– Doktor J
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DoktorJ at which point you're basically replicating the spitting cobra except spitting acid instead of neurotoxins. And the cobra has a better mechanism as it doesn't have the stuff flowing through his body in places that could be damaged by it.
$endgroup$
– jwenting
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Could powerful stomach acid be spat as a means of defense and/or attack?
YES but...
The stomach of any organism using acid as digestive liquid is protected against the action of said acid by a thick layer of mucus. The esophagus doesn't have the luxury of this layer, and is thus much more vulnerable to the action of the acid. In fact humans can get esophagus perforation in such cases.
So, if you want your dragon to throw up acid, you need to coat its esophagus with a thick layer of mucus.
However... attacking after lunch would mean emptying one's stomach, which would result in a energetic loss. It is reasonable as a mean of "better hungry and alive than full and dead" for a lesser animal, but for a might dragon might be a bit against the rule of cool.
Better would be to have your dragon develop some pockets where acid can be stored and used at necessity, without the need to throw away a well deserved meal.
$endgroup$
Could powerful stomach acid be spat as a means of defense and/or attack?
YES but...
The stomach of any organism using acid as digestive liquid is protected against the action of said acid by a thick layer of mucus. The esophagus doesn't have the luxury of this layer, and is thus much more vulnerable to the action of the acid. In fact humans can get esophagus perforation in such cases.
So, if you want your dragon to throw up acid, you need to coat its esophagus with a thick layer of mucus.
However... attacking after lunch would mean emptying one's stomach, which would result in a energetic loss. It is reasonable as a mean of "better hungry and alive than full and dead" for a lesser animal, but for a might dragon might be a bit against the rule of cool.
Better would be to have your dragon develop some pockets where acid can be stored and used at necessity, without the need to throw away a well deserved meal.
answered 13 hours ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
91.7k29212441
91.7k29212441
1
$begingroup$
Presumably, this attack would be used as a means of acquiring lunch, so that would not be a problem. (It would even pre-digest your food a bit before swallowing it...)
$endgroup$
– Darrel Hoffman
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Also, the acid could be produced/stored in glands or bladders located just above the stomach along the esophagus; they could have an extra sphincter in their esophagus -- one above the acid bladders in addition to the one below. Normally, when digesting, the upper one closes and the lower one opens, and the bladders secrete a small portion of their contents to help digest food. When the dragon needs to spit though, the lower sphincter closes while the upper one opens, and the bladders disgorge a much greater volume of acid, creating a nasty acid spray.
$endgroup$
– Doktor J
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DoktorJ at which point you're basically replicating the spitting cobra except spitting acid instead of neurotoxins. And the cobra has a better mechanism as it doesn't have the stuff flowing through his body in places that could be damaged by it.
$endgroup$
– jwenting
1 hour ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Presumably, this attack would be used as a means of acquiring lunch, so that would not be a problem. (It would even pre-digest your food a bit before swallowing it...)
$endgroup$
– Darrel Hoffman
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Also, the acid could be produced/stored in glands or bladders located just above the stomach along the esophagus; they could have an extra sphincter in their esophagus -- one above the acid bladders in addition to the one below. Normally, when digesting, the upper one closes and the lower one opens, and the bladders secrete a small portion of their contents to help digest food. When the dragon needs to spit though, the lower sphincter closes while the upper one opens, and the bladders disgorge a much greater volume of acid, creating a nasty acid spray.
$endgroup$
– Doktor J
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DoktorJ at which point you're basically replicating the spitting cobra except spitting acid instead of neurotoxins. And the cobra has a better mechanism as it doesn't have the stuff flowing through his body in places that could be damaged by it.
$endgroup$
– jwenting
1 hour ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Presumably, this attack would be used as a means of acquiring lunch, so that would not be a problem. (It would even pre-digest your food a bit before swallowing it...)
$endgroup$
– Darrel Hoffman
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Presumably, this attack would be used as a means of acquiring lunch, so that would not be a problem. (It would even pre-digest your food a bit before swallowing it...)
$endgroup$
– Darrel Hoffman
9 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Also, the acid could be produced/stored in glands or bladders located just above the stomach along the esophagus; they could have an extra sphincter in their esophagus -- one above the acid bladders in addition to the one below. Normally, when digesting, the upper one closes and the lower one opens, and the bladders secrete a small portion of their contents to help digest food. When the dragon needs to spit though, the lower sphincter closes while the upper one opens, and the bladders disgorge a much greater volume of acid, creating a nasty acid spray.
$endgroup$
– Doktor J
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Also, the acid could be produced/stored in glands or bladders located just above the stomach along the esophagus; they could have an extra sphincter in their esophagus -- one above the acid bladders in addition to the one below. Normally, when digesting, the upper one closes and the lower one opens, and the bladders secrete a small portion of their contents to help digest food. When the dragon needs to spit though, the lower sphincter closes while the upper one opens, and the bladders disgorge a much greater volume of acid, creating a nasty acid spray.
$endgroup$
– Doktor J
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DoktorJ at which point you're basically replicating the spitting cobra except spitting acid instead of neurotoxins. And the cobra has a better mechanism as it doesn't have the stuff flowing through his body in places that could be damaged by it.
$endgroup$
– jwenting
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@DoktorJ at which point you're basically replicating the spitting cobra except spitting acid instead of neurotoxins. And the cobra has a better mechanism as it doesn't have the stuff flowing through his body in places that could be damaged by it.
$endgroup$
– jwenting
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
YES
Gastric acid (HCl) can be used as a means of defense or attack. Acid weapons are known in nature. Ants spray formic acid, for example. Some birds, vutlures for example, vomit as means of defense. A number of creatures evert their stomachs in order to clear out yucky things they've eaten.
In the literature, we find this example of gastric acid magic.
Yum. So yes, your dragons could certainly do this as well. If they're large beasts, the effects will probably be quite astonishing.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Additionally, depending on the diet of the dragon, the acid may have to be more corrosive in order to digest exotic items. This makes sense in an evolutionary perspective.
$endgroup$
– Mathaddict
13 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Mathaddict Indeed! If you look into vultures as a real world exemplar upon which to model the dragon's behaviour, their gastric acid is terribly acidic compared with humans'.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
13 hours ago
7
$begingroup$
Love those "Would this crazy outlandish thing be possible somehow?" "Yes, it already exists in nature."
$endgroup$
– Eth
13 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
YES
Gastric acid (HCl) can be used as a means of defense or attack. Acid weapons are known in nature. Ants spray formic acid, for example. Some birds, vutlures for example, vomit as means of defense. A number of creatures evert their stomachs in order to clear out yucky things they've eaten.
In the literature, we find this example of gastric acid magic.
Yum. So yes, your dragons could certainly do this as well. If they're large beasts, the effects will probably be quite astonishing.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Additionally, depending on the diet of the dragon, the acid may have to be more corrosive in order to digest exotic items. This makes sense in an evolutionary perspective.
$endgroup$
– Mathaddict
13 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Mathaddict Indeed! If you look into vultures as a real world exemplar upon which to model the dragon's behaviour, their gastric acid is terribly acidic compared with humans'.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
13 hours ago
7
$begingroup$
Love those "Would this crazy outlandish thing be possible somehow?" "Yes, it already exists in nature."
$endgroup$
– Eth
13 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
YES
Gastric acid (HCl) can be used as a means of defense or attack. Acid weapons are known in nature. Ants spray formic acid, for example. Some birds, vutlures for example, vomit as means of defense. A number of creatures evert their stomachs in order to clear out yucky things they've eaten.
In the literature, we find this example of gastric acid magic.
Yum. So yes, your dragons could certainly do this as well. If they're large beasts, the effects will probably be quite astonishing.
$endgroup$
YES
Gastric acid (HCl) can be used as a means of defense or attack. Acid weapons are known in nature. Ants spray formic acid, for example. Some birds, vutlures for example, vomit as means of defense. A number of creatures evert their stomachs in order to clear out yucky things they've eaten.
In the literature, we find this example of gastric acid magic.
Yum. So yes, your dragons could certainly do this as well. If they're large beasts, the effects will probably be quite astonishing.
answered 13 hours ago
elemtilaselemtilas
15.1k23364
15.1k23364
1
$begingroup$
Additionally, depending on the diet of the dragon, the acid may have to be more corrosive in order to digest exotic items. This makes sense in an evolutionary perspective.
$endgroup$
– Mathaddict
13 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Mathaddict Indeed! If you look into vultures as a real world exemplar upon which to model the dragon's behaviour, their gastric acid is terribly acidic compared with humans'.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
13 hours ago
7
$begingroup$
Love those "Would this crazy outlandish thing be possible somehow?" "Yes, it already exists in nature."
$endgroup$
– Eth
13 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Additionally, depending on the diet of the dragon, the acid may have to be more corrosive in order to digest exotic items. This makes sense in an evolutionary perspective.
$endgroup$
– Mathaddict
13 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Mathaddict Indeed! If you look into vultures as a real world exemplar upon which to model the dragon's behaviour, their gastric acid is terribly acidic compared with humans'.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
13 hours ago
7
$begingroup$
Love those "Would this crazy outlandish thing be possible somehow?" "Yes, it already exists in nature."
$endgroup$
– Eth
13 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Additionally, depending on the diet of the dragon, the acid may have to be more corrosive in order to digest exotic items. This makes sense in an evolutionary perspective.
$endgroup$
– Mathaddict
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
Additionally, depending on the diet of the dragon, the acid may have to be more corrosive in order to digest exotic items. This makes sense in an evolutionary perspective.
$endgroup$
– Mathaddict
13 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@Mathaddict Indeed! If you look into vultures as a real world exemplar upon which to model the dragon's behaviour, their gastric acid is terribly acidic compared with humans'.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Mathaddict Indeed! If you look into vultures as a real world exemplar upon which to model the dragon's behaviour, their gastric acid is terribly acidic compared with humans'.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
13 hours ago
7
7
$begingroup$
Love those "Would this crazy outlandish thing be possible somehow?" "Yes, it already exists in nature."
$endgroup$
– Eth
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
Love those "Would this crazy outlandish thing be possible somehow?" "Yes, it already exists in nature."
$endgroup$
– Eth
13 hours ago
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
I see you're sneaking in three extra questions there ... best practice is to ask one focused question in order to get one good answer. You can always ask follow up questions. But you knew that already! Please edit accordingly.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
@elemtilas Fair enough. Question edited.
$endgroup$
– SealBoi
14 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Great! Question answered!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
13 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Related (but not a dupe): worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/q/115804/21222
$endgroup$
– Renan
13 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
As another alternative, consider the Bombardier Beetle: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
10 hours ago