Are positive and negative energy from their respective planes inherently good and evil?
$begingroup$
Are positive and negative energy from their respective planes inherently good and evil? I am talking about the positive energy plane and negative energy plane from the great wheel model, which includes them as encircling the cosmology.
In my campaign, due to the wide variety of situations that the players will go through, I am wondering whether they are thought of as good and evil due to an inherent alignment, or the fact that the alignment of the user means they tend to find more uses, such as the fact that evil characters could come up with more uses of negative, while a good character would have fewer uses for negative, but could come up with more for positive. As they are not mentioned commonly, radiant and necrotic damage are part of what I am asking, so feel free to use those in your explanation.
dnd-5e alignment planes positive-energy negative-energy
$endgroup$
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Are positive and negative energy from their respective planes inherently good and evil? I am talking about the positive energy plane and negative energy plane from the great wheel model, which includes them as encircling the cosmology.
In my campaign, due to the wide variety of situations that the players will go through, I am wondering whether they are thought of as good and evil due to an inherent alignment, or the fact that the alignment of the user means they tend to find more uses, such as the fact that evil characters could come up with more uses of negative, while a good character would have fewer uses for negative, but could come up with more for positive. As they are not mentioned commonly, radiant and necrotic damage are part of what I am asking, so feel free to use those in your explanation.
dnd-5e alignment planes positive-energy negative-energy
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
From the positive and negative energy planes, they still exist in 5e, but are not mentioned very much. The great wheel model includes them as encircling the cosmology
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Those are their literal names, positive energy plane, and negative energy plane
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
When you say "positive energy" and "negative energy", is that related to radiant and necrotic damage types?
$endgroup$
– MikeQ
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Yes it is, healing spells and radiant damage use positive energy(positive energy plane has been referenced as where souls form) while necrotic and decay based spells/abilities use negative
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
For those of you wondering, there is very brief info in the DMG section titled Creating a Multiverse. I don't think they are mentioned anywhere else.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
7 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Are positive and negative energy from their respective planes inherently good and evil? I am talking about the positive energy plane and negative energy plane from the great wheel model, which includes them as encircling the cosmology.
In my campaign, due to the wide variety of situations that the players will go through, I am wondering whether they are thought of as good and evil due to an inherent alignment, or the fact that the alignment of the user means they tend to find more uses, such as the fact that evil characters could come up with more uses of negative, while a good character would have fewer uses for negative, but could come up with more for positive. As they are not mentioned commonly, radiant and necrotic damage are part of what I am asking, so feel free to use those in your explanation.
dnd-5e alignment planes positive-energy negative-energy
$endgroup$
Are positive and negative energy from their respective planes inherently good and evil? I am talking about the positive energy plane and negative energy plane from the great wheel model, which includes them as encircling the cosmology.
In my campaign, due to the wide variety of situations that the players will go through, I am wondering whether they are thought of as good and evil due to an inherent alignment, or the fact that the alignment of the user means they tend to find more uses, such as the fact that evil characters could come up with more uses of negative, while a good character would have fewer uses for negative, but could come up with more for positive. As they are not mentioned commonly, radiant and necrotic damage are part of what I am asking, so feel free to use those in your explanation.
dnd-5e alignment planes positive-energy negative-energy
dnd-5e alignment planes positive-energy negative-energy
edited 3 mins ago
Ej Sizemore
asked 8 hours ago
Ej SizemoreEj Sizemore
1587
1587
$begingroup$
From the positive and negative energy planes, they still exist in 5e, but are not mentioned very much. The great wheel model includes them as encircling the cosmology
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Those are their literal names, positive energy plane, and negative energy plane
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
When you say "positive energy" and "negative energy", is that related to radiant and necrotic damage types?
$endgroup$
– MikeQ
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Yes it is, healing spells and radiant damage use positive energy(positive energy plane has been referenced as where souls form) while necrotic and decay based spells/abilities use negative
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
For those of you wondering, there is very brief info in the DMG section titled Creating a Multiverse. I don't think they are mentioned anywhere else.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
7 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
From the positive and negative energy planes, they still exist in 5e, but are not mentioned very much. The great wheel model includes them as encircling the cosmology
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Those are their literal names, positive energy plane, and negative energy plane
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
When you say "positive energy" and "negative energy", is that related to radiant and necrotic damage types?
$endgroup$
– MikeQ
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Yes it is, healing spells and radiant damage use positive energy(positive energy plane has been referenced as where souls form) while necrotic and decay based spells/abilities use negative
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
For those of you wondering, there is very brief info in the DMG section titled Creating a Multiverse. I don't think they are mentioned anywhere else.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
From the positive and negative energy planes, they still exist in 5e, but are not mentioned very much. The great wheel model includes them as encircling the cosmology
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
From the positive and negative energy planes, they still exist in 5e, but are not mentioned very much. The great wheel model includes them as encircling the cosmology
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Those are their literal names, positive energy plane, and negative energy plane
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Those are their literal names, positive energy plane, and negative energy plane
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
When you say "positive energy" and "negative energy", is that related to radiant and necrotic damage types?
$endgroup$
– MikeQ
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
When you say "positive energy" and "negative energy", is that related to radiant and necrotic damage types?
$endgroup$
– MikeQ
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Yes it is, healing spells and radiant damage use positive energy(positive energy plane has been referenced as where souls form) while necrotic and decay based spells/abilities use negative
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Yes it is, healing spells and radiant damage use positive energy(positive energy plane has been referenced as where souls form) while necrotic and decay based spells/abilities use negative
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
For those of you wondering, there is very brief info in the DMG section titled Creating a Multiverse. I don't think they are mentioned anywhere else.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
For those of you wondering, there is very brief info in the DMG section titled Creating a Multiverse. I don't think they are mentioned anywhere else.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
7 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
No
Positive and negative energy are not defined as either good or evil, although some of the uses of those energy sources may themselves be good or evil.
The Dungeon Master's Guide p. 43 states only this about the planes of positive and negative energy:
The Positive and Negative Planes. These two planes enfold the rest of the cosmology, providing the raw forces of life and death that underlie the rest of existence in the multiverse.
Player's Handbook p. 300 makes a similar statement:
Like a dome above other planes, the Positive Plane is the source of radiant energy and the raw life force that suffuses all living beings, from the puny to the sublime. Its dark reflection is the Negative Plane, the source of necrotic energy that destroys the living and animates the undead.
Negative energy is the source of energy that gives rise to undead creatures (DMG p. 96). However, casting circle of death (PHB p. 221), which conjures negative energy, is not described as an evil act.
Necromancy itself is not considered evil, as per PHB p. 118:
Most people see necromancers as menacing, or even villainous, due to the close association with death. Not all necromancers are evil, but the forces they manipulate are considered taboo by many societies.
And on p. 203 it is described that raising undead is not good, although this does not make a statement about negative energy itself:
Creating the undead through the use of necromancy spells such as animate dead is not a good act, and only evil creatures use such spells frequently
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Positive and Negative energy are never mentioned.
As far as I know, there is no mention of positive and negative energy in 5e. The only mention of the planes themselves that I could find is a very brief snippet in the Dungeon Master's Guide chapter "Creating a Multiverse":
The Positive and Negative Planes. These two planes enfold the rest of the cosmology, providing the raw forces of life and death that underlie the rest of existence in the multiverse
Life and death are not inherently evil or good as evident by the fact that there are deities of each alignment associated with both life and death. I would imagine, as these planes house the raw forces of life and death, that any energies derived from these forces also lack a specific alignment. However, this is merely conjecture as those energies are not mentioned in 5e.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
The energies aren't mentioned. In past editions the energies themselves had specific rules. They don't in 5e
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
They’re not always described as positive ‘energy’ plane or negative ‘energy’ plane, but assuming they function to their previous versions, the ‘forces of life and death’ it refers to are the energies
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@EjSizemore That assumption may not be correct. But do note that the Plane description don't say positive/negative energy but radiant/necrotic. Are you really wanting to ask about Radiant/necrotic?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@EjSizemore it is highly possible that the designers of 5e deliberately moved away from those terms. That's why I make a point that they aren't mentioned. 5e was designed to simplify things and radiant/necrotic energies already fit the bill.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
The energies specifically, though radiant and necrotic are resultant damages of positive and negative respectively
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
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2 Answers
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$begingroup$
No
Positive and negative energy are not defined as either good or evil, although some of the uses of those energy sources may themselves be good or evil.
The Dungeon Master's Guide p. 43 states only this about the planes of positive and negative energy:
The Positive and Negative Planes. These two planes enfold the rest of the cosmology, providing the raw forces of life and death that underlie the rest of existence in the multiverse.
Player's Handbook p. 300 makes a similar statement:
Like a dome above other planes, the Positive Plane is the source of radiant energy and the raw life force that suffuses all living beings, from the puny to the sublime. Its dark reflection is the Negative Plane, the source of necrotic energy that destroys the living and animates the undead.
Negative energy is the source of energy that gives rise to undead creatures (DMG p. 96). However, casting circle of death (PHB p. 221), which conjures negative energy, is not described as an evil act.
Necromancy itself is not considered evil, as per PHB p. 118:
Most people see necromancers as menacing, or even villainous, due to the close association with death. Not all necromancers are evil, but the forces they manipulate are considered taboo by many societies.
And on p. 203 it is described that raising undead is not good, although this does not make a statement about negative energy itself:
Creating the undead through the use of necromancy spells such as animate dead is not a good act, and only evil creatures use such spells frequently
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No
Positive and negative energy are not defined as either good or evil, although some of the uses of those energy sources may themselves be good or evil.
The Dungeon Master's Guide p. 43 states only this about the planes of positive and negative energy:
The Positive and Negative Planes. These two planes enfold the rest of the cosmology, providing the raw forces of life and death that underlie the rest of existence in the multiverse.
Player's Handbook p. 300 makes a similar statement:
Like a dome above other planes, the Positive Plane is the source of radiant energy and the raw life force that suffuses all living beings, from the puny to the sublime. Its dark reflection is the Negative Plane, the source of necrotic energy that destroys the living and animates the undead.
Negative energy is the source of energy that gives rise to undead creatures (DMG p. 96). However, casting circle of death (PHB p. 221), which conjures negative energy, is not described as an evil act.
Necromancy itself is not considered evil, as per PHB p. 118:
Most people see necromancers as menacing, or even villainous, due to the close association with death. Not all necromancers are evil, but the forces they manipulate are considered taboo by many societies.
And on p. 203 it is described that raising undead is not good, although this does not make a statement about negative energy itself:
Creating the undead through the use of necromancy spells such as animate dead is not a good act, and only evil creatures use such spells frequently
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No
Positive and negative energy are not defined as either good or evil, although some of the uses of those energy sources may themselves be good or evil.
The Dungeon Master's Guide p. 43 states only this about the planes of positive and negative energy:
The Positive and Negative Planes. These two planes enfold the rest of the cosmology, providing the raw forces of life and death that underlie the rest of existence in the multiverse.
Player's Handbook p. 300 makes a similar statement:
Like a dome above other planes, the Positive Plane is the source of radiant energy and the raw life force that suffuses all living beings, from the puny to the sublime. Its dark reflection is the Negative Plane, the source of necrotic energy that destroys the living and animates the undead.
Negative energy is the source of energy that gives rise to undead creatures (DMG p. 96). However, casting circle of death (PHB p. 221), which conjures negative energy, is not described as an evil act.
Necromancy itself is not considered evil, as per PHB p. 118:
Most people see necromancers as menacing, or even villainous, due to the close association with death. Not all necromancers are evil, but the forces they manipulate are considered taboo by many societies.
And on p. 203 it is described that raising undead is not good, although this does not make a statement about negative energy itself:
Creating the undead through the use of necromancy spells such as animate dead is not a good act, and only evil creatures use such spells frequently
$endgroup$
No
Positive and negative energy are not defined as either good or evil, although some of the uses of those energy sources may themselves be good or evil.
The Dungeon Master's Guide p. 43 states only this about the planes of positive and negative energy:
The Positive and Negative Planes. These two planes enfold the rest of the cosmology, providing the raw forces of life and death that underlie the rest of existence in the multiverse.
Player's Handbook p. 300 makes a similar statement:
Like a dome above other planes, the Positive Plane is the source of radiant energy and the raw life force that suffuses all living beings, from the puny to the sublime. Its dark reflection is the Negative Plane, the source of necrotic energy that destroys the living and animates the undead.
Negative energy is the source of energy that gives rise to undead creatures (DMG p. 96). However, casting circle of death (PHB p. 221), which conjures negative energy, is not described as an evil act.
Necromancy itself is not considered evil, as per PHB p. 118:
Most people see necromancers as menacing, or even villainous, due to the close association with death. Not all necromancers are evil, but the forces they manipulate are considered taboo by many societies.
And on p. 203 it is described that raising undead is not good, although this does not make a statement about negative energy itself:
Creating the undead through the use of necromancy spells such as animate dead is not a good act, and only evil creatures use such spells frequently
edited 1 min ago
V2Blast
23.2k374146
23.2k374146
answered 7 hours ago
Quadratic WizardQuadratic Wizard
28.9k394157
28.9k394157
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Positive and Negative energy are never mentioned.
As far as I know, there is no mention of positive and negative energy in 5e. The only mention of the planes themselves that I could find is a very brief snippet in the Dungeon Master's Guide chapter "Creating a Multiverse":
The Positive and Negative Planes. These two planes enfold the rest of the cosmology, providing the raw forces of life and death that underlie the rest of existence in the multiverse
Life and death are not inherently evil or good as evident by the fact that there are deities of each alignment associated with both life and death. I would imagine, as these planes house the raw forces of life and death, that any energies derived from these forces also lack a specific alignment. However, this is merely conjecture as those energies are not mentioned in 5e.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
The energies aren't mentioned. In past editions the energies themselves had specific rules. They don't in 5e
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
They’re not always described as positive ‘energy’ plane or negative ‘energy’ plane, but assuming they function to their previous versions, the ‘forces of life and death’ it refers to are the energies
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@EjSizemore That assumption may not be correct. But do note that the Plane description don't say positive/negative energy but radiant/necrotic. Are you really wanting to ask about Radiant/necrotic?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@EjSizemore it is highly possible that the designers of 5e deliberately moved away from those terms. That's why I make a point that they aren't mentioned. 5e was designed to simplify things and radiant/necrotic energies already fit the bill.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
The energies specifically, though radiant and necrotic are resultant damages of positive and negative respectively
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Positive and Negative energy are never mentioned.
As far as I know, there is no mention of positive and negative energy in 5e. The only mention of the planes themselves that I could find is a very brief snippet in the Dungeon Master's Guide chapter "Creating a Multiverse":
The Positive and Negative Planes. These two planes enfold the rest of the cosmology, providing the raw forces of life and death that underlie the rest of existence in the multiverse
Life and death are not inherently evil or good as evident by the fact that there are deities of each alignment associated with both life and death. I would imagine, as these planes house the raw forces of life and death, that any energies derived from these forces also lack a specific alignment. However, this is merely conjecture as those energies are not mentioned in 5e.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
The energies aren't mentioned. In past editions the energies themselves had specific rules. They don't in 5e
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
They’re not always described as positive ‘energy’ plane or negative ‘energy’ plane, but assuming they function to their previous versions, the ‘forces of life and death’ it refers to are the energies
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@EjSizemore That assumption may not be correct. But do note that the Plane description don't say positive/negative energy but radiant/necrotic. Are you really wanting to ask about Radiant/necrotic?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@EjSizemore it is highly possible that the designers of 5e deliberately moved away from those terms. That's why I make a point that they aren't mentioned. 5e was designed to simplify things and radiant/necrotic energies already fit the bill.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
The energies specifically, though radiant and necrotic are resultant damages of positive and negative respectively
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Positive and Negative energy are never mentioned.
As far as I know, there is no mention of positive and negative energy in 5e. The only mention of the planes themselves that I could find is a very brief snippet in the Dungeon Master's Guide chapter "Creating a Multiverse":
The Positive and Negative Planes. These two planes enfold the rest of the cosmology, providing the raw forces of life and death that underlie the rest of existence in the multiverse
Life and death are not inherently evil or good as evident by the fact that there are deities of each alignment associated with both life and death. I would imagine, as these planes house the raw forces of life and death, that any energies derived from these forces also lack a specific alignment. However, this is merely conjecture as those energies are not mentioned in 5e.
$endgroup$
Positive and Negative energy are never mentioned.
As far as I know, there is no mention of positive and negative energy in 5e. The only mention of the planes themselves that I could find is a very brief snippet in the Dungeon Master's Guide chapter "Creating a Multiverse":
The Positive and Negative Planes. These two planes enfold the rest of the cosmology, providing the raw forces of life and death that underlie the rest of existence in the multiverse
Life and death are not inherently evil or good as evident by the fact that there are deities of each alignment associated with both life and death. I would imagine, as these planes house the raw forces of life and death, that any energies derived from these forces also lack a specific alignment. However, this is merely conjecture as those energies are not mentioned in 5e.
edited 7 hours ago
answered 7 hours ago
David CoffronDavid Coffron
36k3123249
36k3123249
1
$begingroup$
The energies aren't mentioned. In past editions the energies themselves had specific rules. They don't in 5e
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
They’re not always described as positive ‘energy’ plane or negative ‘energy’ plane, but assuming they function to their previous versions, the ‘forces of life and death’ it refers to are the energies
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@EjSizemore That assumption may not be correct. But do note that the Plane description don't say positive/negative energy but radiant/necrotic. Are you really wanting to ask about Radiant/necrotic?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@EjSizemore it is highly possible that the designers of 5e deliberately moved away from those terms. That's why I make a point that they aren't mentioned. 5e was designed to simplify things and radiant/necrotic energies already fit the bill.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
The energies specifically, though radiant and necrotic are resultant damages of positive and negative respectively
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
1
$begingroup$
The energies aren't mentioned. In past editions the energies themselves had specific rules. They don't in 5e
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
They’re not always described as positive ‘energy’ plane or negative ‘energy’ plane, but assuming they function to their previous versions, the ‘forces of life and death’ it refers to are the energies
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@EjSizemore That assumption may not be correct. But do note that the Plane description don't say positive/negative energy but radiant/necrotic. Are you really wanting to ask about Radiant/necrotic?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@EjSizemore it is highly possible that the designers of 5e deliberately moved away from those terms. That's why I make a point that they aren't mentioned. 5e was designed to simplify things and radiant/necrotic energies already fit the bill.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
The energies specifically, though radiant and necrotic are resultant damages of positive and negative respectively
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
The energies aren't mentioned. In past editions the energies themselves had specific rules. They don't in 5e
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
The energies aren't mentioned. In past editions the energies themselves had specific rules. They don't in 5e
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
They’re not always described as positive ‘energy’ plane or negative ‘energy’ plane, but assuming they function to their previous versions, the ‘forces of life and death’ it refers to are the energies
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
They’re not always described as positive ‘energy’ plane or negative ‘energy’ plane, but assuming they function to their previous versions, the ‘forces of life and death’ it refers to are the energies
$endgroup$
– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@EjSizemore That assumption may not be correct. But do note that the Plane description don't say positive/negative energy but radiant/necrotic. Are you really wanting to ask about Radiant/necrotic?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@EjSizemore That assumption may not be correct. But do note that the Plane description don't say positive/negative energy but radiant/necrotic. Are you really wanting to ask about Radiant/necrotic?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@EjSizemore it is highly possible that the designers of 5e deliberately moved away from those terms. That's why I make a point that they aren't mentioned. 5e was designed to simplify things and radiant/necrotic energies already fit the bill.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@EjSizemore it is highly possible that the designers of 5e deliberately moved away from those terms. That's why I make a point that they aren't mentioned. 5e was designed to simplify things and radiant/necrotic energies already fit the bill.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
The energies specifically, though radiant and necrotic are resultant damages of positive and negative respectively
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– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
The energies specifically, though radiant and necrotic are resultant damages of positive and negative respectively
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– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
|
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$begingroup$
From the positive and negative energy planes, they still exist in 5e, but are not mentioned very much. The great wheel model includes them as encircling the cosmology
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– Ej Sizemore
8 hours ago
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Those are their literal names, positive energy plane, and negative energy plane
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– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
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When you say "positive energy" and "negative energy", is that related to radiant and necrotic damage types?
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– MikeQ
7 hours ago
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Yes it is, healing spells and radiant damage use positive energy(positive energy plane has been referenced as where souls form) while necrotic and decay based spells/abilities use negative
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– Ej Sizemore
7 hours ago
1
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For those of you wondering, there is very brief info in the DMG section titled Creating a Multiverse. I don't think they are mentioned anywhere else.
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– David Coffron
7 hours ago