Is “history” a male-biased word (“his+story”)?
(Yes, this is an English word, but it's roots go through Latin and Greek, and so the question here. Hopefully that's OK. This intro can be deleted if a moderator agrees.).
In the last International Women's Day I saw some footage showing a poster with the phrase "women making herstory", as opposed to "history". The phrase was playing with the fact that the word "history" can be decomposed as "his+story", suggesting a male tone. I wonder whether the origin of the word does includes this gendered tone. According to wiktionary, "history" comes from the Ancient Greek "ἱστορία", which is a female noun (is there a relation between noun of word and cultural gender of the word?). Now, ἱστορία comes from another Greek word, "ῐ̔́στωρ", which, in turns comes from PIE. "ῐ̔́στωρ" is a male noun, perhaps because, since it means judge, culturally judges were men (so notice the change from male to female in history)
Now, I know nothing of Greek, let alone of linguistics, so I'm not sure how to interpret the above to answer my question. It seems, the answer is "no, there is no male tone in the word history". In fact, as said, the word itself is feminine in both Latin and Greek. Any ideas?
PS: related but unhelpful post here.
greek etymologia english genus
add a comment |
(Yes, this is an English word, but it's roots go through Latin and Greek, and so the question here. Hopefully that's OK. This intro can be deleted if a moderator agrees.).
In the last International Women's Day I saw some footage showing a poster with the phrase "women making herstory", as opposed to "history". The phrase was playing with the fact that the word "history" can be decomposed as "his+story", suggesting a male tone. I wonder whether the origin of the word does includes this gendered tone. According to wiktionary, "history" comes from the Ancient Greek "ἱστορία", which is a female noun (is there a relation between noun of word and cultural gender of the word?). Now, ἱστορία comes from another Greek word, "ῐ̔́στωρ", which, in turns comes from PIE. "ῐ̔́στωρ" is a male noun, perhaps because, since it means judge, culturally judges were men (so notice the change from male to female in history)
Now, I know nothing of Greek, let alone of linguistics, so I'm not sure how to interpret the above to answer my question. It seems, the answer is "no, there is no male tone in the word history". In fact, as said, the word itself is feminine in both Latin and Greek. Any ideas?
PS: related but unhelpful post here.
greek etymologia english genus
Can you elaborate a little on how the related post is unhelpful?
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
7 hours ago
@JoonasIlmavirta in that it does not answer the question (as far as I can see). It asks for the origin of "hi", but does not addresses whether the Greek from where this prefix comes posses some gender value.
– luchonacho
7 hours ago
2
No. This is nonsense rhetoric intended to push an agenda.
– only_pro
3 hours ago
I heard this two decades ago with a capital H for a different meaning. I thought it was a coincidence then. How we English speakers assume. e.g. burger is nonsense.
– Joshua
1 hour ago
add a comment |
(Yes, this is an English word, but it's roots go through Latin and Greek, and so the question here. Hopefully that's OK. This intro can be deleted if a moderator agrees.).
In the last International Women's Day I saw some footage showing a poster with the phrase "women making herstory", as opposed to "history". The phrase was playing with the fact that the word "history" can be decomposed as "his+story", suggesting a male tone. I wonder whether the origin of the word does includes this gendered tone. According to wiktionary, "history" comes from the Ancient Greek "ἱστορία", which is a female noun (is there a relation between noun of word and cultural gender of the word?). Now, ἱστορία comes from another Greek word, "ῐ̔́στωρ", which, in turns comes from PIE. "ῐ̔́στωρ" is a male noun, perhaps because, since it means judge, culturally judges were men (so notice the change from male to female in history)
Now, I know nothing of Greek, let alone of linguistics, so I'm not sure how to interpret the above to answer my question. It seems, the answer is "no, there is no male tone in the word history". In fact, as said, the word itself is feminine in both Latin and Greek. Any ideas?
PS: related but unhelpful post here.
greek etymologia english genus
(Yes, this is an English word, but it's roots go through Latin and Greek, and so the question here. Hopefully that's OK. This intro can be deleted if a moderator agrees.).
In the last International Women's Day I saw some footage showing a poster with the phrase "women making herstory", as opposed to "history". The phrase was playing with the fact that the word "history" can be decomposed as "his+story", suggesting a male tone. I wonder whether the origin of the word does includes this gendered tone. According to wiktionary, "history" comes from the Ancient Greek "ἱστορία", which is a female noun (is there a relation between noun of word and cultural gender of the word?). Now, ἱστορία comes from another Greek word, "ῐ̔́στωρ", which, in turns comes from PIE. "ῐ̔́στωρ" is a male noun, perhaps because, since it means judge, culturally judges were men (so notice the change from male to female in history)
Now, I know nothing of Greek, let alone of linguistics, so I'm not sure how to interpret the above to answer my question. It seems, the answer is "no, there is no male tone in the word history". In fact, as said, the word itself is feminine in both Latin and Greek. Any ideas?
PS: related but unhelpful post here.
greek etymologia english genus
greek etymologia english genus
edited 6 hours ago
luchonacho
asked 7 hours ago
luchonacholuchonacho
5,48641358
5,48641358
Can you elaborate a little on how the related post is unhelpful?
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
7 hours ago
@JoonasIlmavirta in that it does not answer the question (as far as I can see). It asks for the origin of "hi", but does not addresses whether the Greek from where this prefix comes posses some gender value.
– luchonacho
7 hours ago
2
No. This is nonsense rhetoric intended to push an agenda.
– only_pro
3 hours ago
I heard this two decades ago with a capital H for a different meaning. I thought it was a coincidence then. How we English speakers assume. e.g. burger is nonsense.
– Joshua
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Can you elaborate a little on how the related post is unhelpful?
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
7 hours ago
@JoonasIlmavirta in that it does not answer the question (as far as I can see). It asks for the origin of "hi", but does not addresses whether the Greek from where this prefix comes posses some gender value.
– luchonacho
7 hours ago
2
No. This is nonsense rhetoric intended to push an agenda.
– only_pro
3 hours ago
I heard this two decades ago with a capital H for a different meaning. I thought it was a coincidence then. How we English speakers assume. e.g. burger is nonsense.
– Joshua
1 hour ago
Can you elaborate a little on how the related post is unhelpful?
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
7 hours ago
Can you elaborate a little on how the related post is unhelpful?
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
7 hours ago
@JoonasIlmavirta in that it does not answer the question (as far as I can see). It asks for the origin of "hi", but does not addresses whether the Greek from where this prefix comes posses some gender value.
– luchonacho
7 hours ago
@JoonasIlmavirta in that it does not answer the question (as far as I can see). It asks for the origin of "hi", but does not addresses whether the Greek from where this prefix comes posses some gender value.
– luchonacho
7 hours ago
2
2
No. This is nonsense rhetoric intended to push an agenda.
– only_pro
3 hours ago
No. This is nonsense rhetoric intended to push an agenda.
– only_pro
3 hours ago
I heard this two decades ago with a capital H for a different meaning. I thought it was a coincidence then. How we English speakers assume. e.g. burger is nonsense.
– Joshua
1 hour ago
I heard this two decades ago with a capital H for a different meaning. I thought it was a coincidence then. How we English speakers assume. e.g. burger is nonsense.
– Joshua
1 hour ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
While I'm sure a better-research answer might be able to give you more insight, perhaps a simple response will be a good place to start.
As you found, "history" comes from Greek ἱστορία (historia) via Latin historia. A "ἱστορία" generically means an "inquiry," and that is the sense that Herodotus intends in the famous opening lines of his Histories:
Ἡροδότου Ἁλικαρνησσέος ἱστορίης ἀπόδεξις ἥδε...
Godley's translation:
This is the display of the inquiry of Herodotus of Halicarnassus...
So:
Does English "history" come from "his story"? No. "Story" comes from the same Greek word, but the "hi" is completely unrelated to the masculine pronoun.
Does "historia" have a female connotation? No. Except in certain obvious cases, grammatical gender has nothing to do with male and female "in the real world." It's as silly (and wrong) to think that "virtus" or "ἀρετή" (virtue/excellence) are somehow "female-associated" or that "μαστός" (breast) is somehow "male-associated."
Are there problems with sexism in history? Yes. But let's not try to fix that by appealing to a spurious etymology.
add a comment |
'Herstory' is not much more than a nonce-word. It's the sort of thing that used to be quoted by feminists in order to demonstrate how wrongfully the world, even the English language, had been arranged to ensure that men would rule it. As @brianpck suggests, it's quite wrong to look for any other etymological explanation.
Over the years, other words have been suggested with similar intent. You can see the sort of thing in the tongue-in-cheek suggestion that Manchester should become 'Personchester', which was in its turn corrected by some to 'Perchildchester' or 'Perkidchester'. Sadly enough, it all went to trivialise what was, in fact, a serious call for reform in an important aspect of British society, one that is still being addressed.
Man hattan......
– Joshua
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "644"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flatin.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f9251%2fis-history-a-male-biased-word-hisstory%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
While I'm sure a better-research answer might be able to give you more insight, perhaps a simple response will be a good place to start.
As you found, "history" comes from Greek ἱστορία (historia) via Latin historia. A "ἱστορία" generically means an "inquiry," and that is the sense that Herodotus intends in the famous opening lines of his Histories:
Ἡροδότου Ἁλικαρνησσέος ἱστορίης ἀπόδεξις ἥδε...
Godley's translation:
This is the display of the inquiry of Herodotus of Halicarnassus...
So:
Does English "history" come from "his story"? No. "Story" comes from the same Greek word, but the "hi" is completely unrelated to the masculine pronoun.
Does "historia" have a female connotation? No. Except in certain obvious cases, grammatical gender has nothing to do with male and female "in the real world." It's as silly (and wrong) to think that "virtus" or "ἀρετή" (virtue/excellence) are somehow "female-associated" or that "μαστός" (breast) is somehow "male-associated."
Are there problems with sexism in history? Yes. But let's not try to fix that by appealing to a spurious etymology.
add a comment |
While I'm sure a better-research answer might be able to give you more insight, perhaps a simple response will be a good place to start.
As you found, "history" comes from Greek ἱστορία (historia) via Latin historia. A "ἱστορία" generically means an "inquiry," and that is the sense that Herodotus intends in the famous opening lines of his Histories:
Ἡροδότου Ἁλικαρνησσέος ἱστορίης ἀπόδεξις ἥδε...
Godley's translation:
This is the display of the inquiry of Herodotus of Halicarnassus...
So:
Does English "history" come from "his story"? No. "Story" comes from the same Greek word, but the "hi" is completely unrelated to the masculine pronoun.
Does "historia" have a female connotation? No. Except in certain obvious cases, grammatical gender has nothing to do with male and female "in the real world." It's as silly (and wrong) to think that "virtus" or "ἀρετή" (virtue/excellence) are somehow "female-associated" or that "μαστός" (breast) is somehow "male-associated."
Are there problems with sexism in history? Yes. But let's not try to fix that by appealing to a spurious etymology.
add a comment |
While I'm sure a better-research answer might be able to give you more insight, perhaps a simple response will be a good place to start.
As you found, "history" comes from Greek ἱστορία (historia) via Latin historia. A "ἱστορία" generically means an "inquiry," and that is the sense that Herodotus intends in the famous opening lines of his Histories:
Ἡροδότου Ἁλικαρνησσέος ἱστορίης ἀπόδεξις ἥδε...
Godley's translation:
This is the display of the inquiry of Herodotus of Halicarnassus...
So:
Does English "history" come from "his story"? No. "Story" comes from the same Greek word, but the "hi" is completely unrelated to the masculine pronoun.
Does "historia" have a female connotation? No. Except in certain obvious cases, grammatical gender has nothing to do with male and female "in the real world." It's as silly (and wrong) to think that "virtus" or "ἀρετή" (virtue/excellence) are somehow "female-associated" or that "μαστός" (breast) is somehow "male-associated."
Are there problems with sexism in history? Yes. But let's not try to fix that by appealing to a spurious etymology.
While I'm sure a better-research answer might be able to give you more insight, perhaps a simple response will be a good place to start.
As you found, "history" comes from Greek ἱστορία (historia) via Latin historia. A "ἱστορία" generically means an "inquiry," and that is the sense that Herodotus intends in the famous opening lines of his Histories:
Ἡροδότου Ἁλικαρνησσέος ἱστορίης ἀπόδεξις ἥδε...
Godley's translation:
This is the display of the inquiry of Herodotus of Halicarnassus...
So:
Does English "history" come from "his story"? No. "Story" comes from the same Greek word, but the "hi" is completely unrelated to the masculine pronoun.
Does "historia" have a female connotation? No. Except in certain obvious cases, grammatical gender has nothing to do with male and female "in the real world." It's as silly (and wrong) to think that "virtus" or "ἀρετή" (virtue/excellence) are somehow "female-associated" or that "μαστός" (breast) is somehow "male-associated."
Are there problems with sexism in history? Yes. But let's not try to fix that by appealing to a spurious etymology.
answered 4 hours ago
brianpckbrianpck
24k145120
24k145120
add a comment |
add a comment |
'Herstory' is not much more than a nonce-word. It's the sort of thing that used to be quoted by feminists in order to demonstrate how wrongfully the world, even the English language, had been arranged to ensure that men would rule it. As @brianpck suggests, it's quite wrong to look for any other etymological explanation.
Over the years, other words have been suggested with similar intent. You can see the sort of thing in the tongue-in-cheek suggestion that Manchester should become 'Personchester', which was in its turn corrected by some to 'Perchildchester' or 'Perkidchester'. Sadly enough, it all went to trivialise what was, in fact, a serious call for reform in an important aspect of British society, one that is still being addressed.
Man hattan......
– Joshua
1 hour ago
add a comment |
'Herstory' is not much more than a nonce-word. It's the sort of thing that used to be quoted by feminists in order to demonstrate how wrongfully the world, even the English language, had been arranged to ensure that men would rule it. As @brianpck suggests, it's quite wrong to look for any other etymological explanation.
Over the years, other words have been suggested with similar intent. You can see the sort of thing in the tongue-in-cheek suggestion that Manchester should become 'Personchester', which was in its turn corrected by some to 'Perchildchester' or 'Perkidchester'. Sadly enough, it all went to trivialise what was, in fact, a serious call for reform in an important aspect of British society, one that is still being addressed.
Man hattan......
– Joshua
1 hour ago
add a comment |
'Herstory' is not much more than a nonce-word. It's the sort of thing that used to be quoted by feminists in order to demonstrate how wrongfully the world, even the English language, had been arranged to ensure that men would rule it. As @brianpck suggests, it's quite wrong to look for any other etymological explanation.
Over the years, other words have been suggested with similar intent. You can see the sort of thing in the tongue-in-cheek suggestion that Manchester should become 'Personchester', which was in its turn corrected by some to 'Perchildchester' or 'Perkidchester'. Sadly enough, it all went to trivialise what was, in fact, a serious call for reform in an important aspect of British society, one that is still being addressed.
'Herstory' is not much more than a nonce-word. It's the sort of thing that used to be quoted by feminists in order to demonstrate how wrongfully the world, even the English language, had been arranged to ensure that men would rule it. As @brianpck suggests, it's quite wrong to look for any other etymological explanation.
Over the years, other words have been suggested with similar intent. You can see the sort of thing in the tongue-in-cheek suggestion that Manchester should become 'Personchester', which was in its turn corrected by some to 'Perchildchester' or 'Perkidchester'. Sadly enough, it all went to trivialise what was, in fact, a serious call for reform in an important aspect of British society, one that is still being addressed.
answered 3 hours ago
Tom CottonTom Cotton
14.6k11246
14.6k11246
Man hattan......
– Joshua
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Man hattan......
– Joshua
1 hour ago
Man hattan......
– Joshua
1 hour ago
Man hattan......
– Joshua
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Latin Language Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flatin.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f9251%2fis-history-a-male-biased-word-hisstory%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Can you elaborate a little on how the related post is unhelpful?
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
7 hours ago
@JoonasIlmavirta in that it does not answer the question (as far as I can see). It asks for the origin of "hi", but does not addresses whether the Greek from where this prefix comes posses some gender value.
– luchonacho
7 hours ago
2
No. This is nonsense rhetoric intended to push an agenda.
– only_pro
3 hours ago
I heard this two decades ago with a capital H for a different meaning. I thought it was a coincidence then. How we English speakers assume. e.g. burger is nonsense.
– Joshua
1 hour ago