You becoming 'CHU' and 'JU'












2















I know for over a fact that the word "YOU" when the word before its a T or a 'D' sound it can change to a CH sound or a J sound, but I've ALWAYS wonder why does that happen?



So, I want you= aɪ wɑnt ju= becomes= ɪ wɑnt ʧu



I need you= aɪ nid ju, becomes= aɪ nid ʤʌu



But, why?










share|improve this question




















  • 1





    That is called connected speech: blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2017/06/14/… The link is for British English but it nevertheless introduces the idea. For example: Did and you in: Did you go?

    – Lambie
    2 hours ago













  • As noted several places below, the process involved is palatalization. But that's just a name. What it means is the following: The /y/ (IPA /j/) sound is located in the same part of the mouth (the palate) as the vowel /i/ and the palatal sounds spelled CH and J in English, and that's just behind the place in the mouth where /t/ and /d/ are pronounced, so when the tongue is pronouncing a /t/ or /d/ and has to move to a /y/ or /i/ sound, it goes through the place where it's pronouncing CH or J. It's phonetic and natural, and happens all the time.

    – John Lawler
    1 hour ago


















2















I know for over a fact that the word "YOU" when the word before its a T or a 'D' sound it can change to a CH sound or a J sound, but I've ALWAYS wonder why does that happen?



So, I want you= aɪ wɑnt ju= becomes= ɪ wɑnt ʧu



I need you= aɪ nid ju, becomes= aɪ nid ʤʌu



But, why?










share|improve this question




















  • 1





    That is called connected speech: blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2017/06/14/… The link is for British English but it nevertheless introduces the idea. For example: Did and you in: Did you go?

    – Lambie
    2 hours ago













  • As noted several places below, the process involved is palatalization. But that's just a name. What it means is the following: The /y/ (IPA /j/) sound is located in the same part of the mouth (the palate) as the vowel /i/ and the palatal sounds spelled CH and J in English, and that's just behind the place in the mouth where /t/ and /d/ are pronounced, so when the tongue is pronouncing a /t/ or /d/ and has to move to a /y/ or /i/ sound, it goes through the place where it's pronouncing CH or J. It's phonetic and natural, and happens all the time.

    – John Lawler
    1 hour ago
















2












2








2








I know for over a fact that the word "YOU" when the word before its a T or a 'D' sound it can change to a CH sound or a J sound, but I've ALWAYS wonder why does that happen?



So, I want you= aɪ wɑnt ju= becomes= ɪ wɑnt ʧu



I need you= aɪ nid ju, becomes= aɪ nid ʤʌu



But, why?










share|improve this question
















I know for over a fact that the word "YOU" when the word before its a T or a 'D' sound it can change to a CH sound or a J sound, but I've ALWAYS wonder why does that happen?



So, I want you= aɪ wɑnt ju= becomes= ɪ wɑnt ʧu



I need you= aɪ nid ju, becomes= aɪ nid ʤʌu



But, why?







pronunciation phonology fast-speech-rules






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 hours ago









tchrist

109k28290464




109k28290464










asked 3 hours ago









Carlos FernandezCarlos Fernandez

655




655








  • 1





    That is called connected speech: blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2017/06/14/… The link is for British English but it nevertheless introduces the idea. For example: Did and you in: Did you go?

    – Lambie
    2 hours ago













  • As noted several places below, the process involved is palatalization. But that's just a name. What it means is the following: The /y/ (IPA /j/) sound is located in the same part of the mouth (the palate) as the vowel /i/ and the palatal sounds spelled CH and J in English, and that's just behind the place in the mouth where /t/ and /d/ are pronounced, so when the tongue is pronouncing a /t/ or /d/ and has to move to a /y/ or /i/ sound, it goes through the place where it's pronouncing CH or J. It's phonetic and natural, and happens all the time.

    – John Lawler
    1 hour ago
















  • 1





    That is called connected speech: blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2017/06/14/… The link is for British English but it nevertheless introduces the idea. For example: Did and you in: Did you go?

    – Lambie
    2 hours ago













  • As noted several places below, the process involved is palatalization. But that's just a name. What it means is the following: The /y/ (IPA /j/) sound is located in the same part of the mouth (the palate) as the vowel /i/ and the palatal sounds spelled CH and J in English, and that's just behind the place in the mouth where /t/ and /d/ are pronounced, so when the tongue is pronouncing a /t/ or /d/ and has to move to a /y/ or /i/ sound, it goes through the place where it's pronouncing CH or J. It's phonetic and natural, and happens all the time.

    – John Lawler
    1 hour ago










1




1





That is called connected speech: blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2017/06/14/… The link is for British English but it nevertheless introduces the idea. For example: Did and you in: Did you go?

– Lambie
2 hours ago







That is called connected speech: blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2017/06/14/… The link is for British English but it nevertheless introduces the idea. For example: Did and you in: Did you go?

– Lambie
2 hours ago















As noted several places below, the process involved is palatalization. But that's just a name. What it means is the following: The /y/ (IPA /j/) sound is located in the same part of the mouth (the palate) as the vowel /i/ and the palatal sounds spelled CH and J in English, and that's just behind the place in the mouth where /t/ and /d/ are pronounced, so when the tongue is pronouncing a /t/ or /d/ and has to move to a /y/ or /i/ sound, it goes through the place where it's pronouncing CH or J. It's phonetic and natural, and happens all the time.

– John Lawler
1 hour ago







As noted several places below, the process involved is palatalization. But that's just a name. What it means is the following: The /y/ (IPA /j/) sound is located in the same part of the mouth (the palate) as the vowel /i/ and the palatal sounds spelled CH and J in English, and that's just behind the place in the mouth where /t/ and /d/ are pronounced, so when the tongue is pronouncing a /t/ or /d/ and has to move to a /y/ or /i/ sound, it goes through the place where it's pronouncing CH or J. It's phonetic and natural, and happens all the time.

– John Lawler
1 hour ago












3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















2














This is the commonplace phonological phenomenon: palatalized affrication under the influence of yod coalescence. Affrication is when a non-affricate sound is replaced by an affricate (that is, a stop plus a fricative), while yod coalescence here is when the rising diphthong starting with /j/ causes the previous stop to become palatalized.



Wikipedia observes:




Yod-coalescence



Yod-coalescence is a process that palatalizes the clusters [dj], [tj], [sj] and [zj] into [dʒ], [tʃ], [ʃ] and [ʒ] respectively (for the meanings of the symbols, see English phonology). The first two of these are examples of affrication.



Unlike yod-dropping, yod-coalescence frequently occurs with clusters which would be considered to span a syllable boundary. It thus commonly occurs before unstressed syllables. For example, in educate, the /dj/ cluster would not usually be subject to yod-dropping (in General American, say), as the /d/ is assigned to the previous syllable, but it commonly coalesces to [dʒ]. Below are a few examples of universal yod-coalescence.




  • /tj/→/tʃ/ in most words ending -ture, such as nature /ˈneɪtʃər/

  • /dj/→/dʒ/ in soldier /ˈsoʊldʒər/

  • /sj/→/ʃ/ in words ending -ssure, such as pressure /ˈprɛʃər/ (also in words ending consonant+sure, consonant+sion, -tion)

  • /zj/→/ʒ/ in words ending vowel+sure, such as measure /ˈmɛʒər/ (also vowel+sion)




English has two affricate phonemes, /t͡ʃ/ and /d͡ʒ/, but that’s not what these are here. They are not phonemic. Because this is a phonological effect, when it happens here it is not phonemic, just a phonological allophone that doesn’t alter which word is perceived to have been said.



This is a common process in many languages, not just English, because it happens as a result of the difficulty in clearly and cleaning moving from the stop to the yod (the /j/ if you would). Think of the words situation and soldier, where the palatalization has been going on for so long that it’s now completely standard and would sound funny if you didn’t do it.



To demonstrate how the same process that produces the palatalized affricate of English did you occurs elsewhere, let’s look at a bit of Romance phonology, where we find this same thing can also happen with such combinations as Spanish en yerba in rapid speech by many native speakers where that turns into something that an English speaker might hear as the "j" of judge, which is really /d͡ʒ/.



This sort of thing happened historically as the yod that appeared in Proto-Romance changed how things were said (and eventually, spelled) compared with classical Latin. Although English is not a Romance language, the many Latin words it adopted from Norman French had lots of these effects going on in them (plus a few that were found only in French such as chair < L. cathedra and cherry < L. cerasum being affricates now in English).



In Romance you can see these yod effects both historically and today. Historic examples include Portuguese chover < VL. plovere (think of the fancy word pluvious in English) and Spanish llover from the same origin. The modern-day effects can be seen in how at times the /j/ sound in Spanish, including in the word yo spoken emphatically and in llover as pronounced by most yeísta speakers, can easily enough become affricated into [ɟ͡ʝ], a sound that English speakers hear as the /d͡ʒ/ in judge. There are many old jokes about Spanish speakers pronouncing in Yale the way an English speaker would pronounce in jail because of this. This happens within Spanish words, too, like enyesar which phonemically matches its spelling /enyeˈsaɾ/ but phonologically can come out as [e̞ɲɟ͡ʝe̞ˈsaɾ].



So the palatalization process of yod coalescence that produces fused affricates occurs naturally not just in English but in many languages. It is both an historical process and an ongoing one that continues to this day.






share|improve this answer


























  • Thanks for the reply. If I'm honest, I didn't understand anything, it's not that you didn't explain it right, it's just I'm just starting in learning, and everything you wrote seemed to complex for me :(. as I said, your explanation might be really clear! but I couldn't quite understand at all. Someone told me the other day, "fortis, CLIPPED AE" I didn't understand a thing. I'm sorry, I'm trying my best.

    – Carlos Fernandez
    3 hours ago











  • @CarlosFernandez I’ve added some more examples, including Spanish ones, in case this helps you see what I mean.

    – tchrist
    2 hours ago



















1














It is caused by lazy enunciation of the "consonant" Y which requires the tip of the tongue to move away from the teeth and palate. The J sound comes out when the tongue isn't moved as far.






share|improve this answer
























  • Why the DV please, do you know @tchrist?

    – Weather Vane
    3 hours ago











  • You should probably refer to those not as Y and J sounds, but instead respectively as the /j/ sound from the word you versus the /d͡ʒ/ sound from the word Jew. Otherwise you may confuse people. Also, your answer is quite short.

    – tchrist
    2 hours ago








  • 1





    All languages have connected speech phenomena. As an interpreter, this is very close to my heart. It really doesn't matter what language you speak. They all change in actual speech. So, "did you" sounds like "didjew" whether BrE or AmE, or "didya". Sorry, no IPA for me today. Your description is technically correct, though. Perhaps the term lazy ain't the best though one could use lazy technically, I suppose. Upvote for me since it actually explains the articulatory mechanism.

    – Lambie
    2 hours ago





















1














The answer of tchrist is well researched, even if it is hard to understand. Here is something you can do to understand how it comes about. Take the sentence: "Don't you dare call me a liar like that!" Stand in front of a mirror and say the word 'don't', stopping dead on the 't' and watching and feeling very carefully exactly where you mouth and tongue are at that point. Notice that your lips are pushed slightly forward. And your tongue is touching the roof of your mouth just behind your teeth.



Now say 'you', observing very carefully where your lips and tongue are at the very beginning. Can you tell that you lips have to be further apart and further back? And that you tongue has had to move back in your mouth and the tip has moved down from the roof? If not just try making the 'y' shape silently and feel how it feels.



Now say 'you' and freeze at the end. Do you see and feel that your lips are (more-or-less) back where they were at the end of 'don't'? I hope so. If you can, then can you now see that, roughly speaking, to say "don't you" you have do move your lips and tongue from where they are at the end of "don't" and more-or less back again. So the quickest and easiest thing to do is not to bother. Just leave them where they are at the end of 'don't' and what comes out is "doan chew".



Now try saying the whole sentence faster and faster and, even if you haven't got it already you'll see what I mean. I hope.



A similar explanation applies to "Mind your backs". But, because the starting point is a 'd' rather than a 't', you say "Mine jaw backs"!






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    3 Answers
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    This is the commonplace phonological phenomenon: palatalized affrication under the influence of yod coalescence. Affrication is when a non-affricate sound is replaced by an affricate (that is, a stop plus a fricative), while yod coalescence here is when the rising diphthong starting with /j/ causes the previous stop to become palatalized.



    Wikipedia observes:




    Yod-coalescence



    Yod-coalescence is a process that palatalizes the clusters [dj], [tj], [sj] and [zj] into [dʒ], [tʃ], [ʃ] and [ʒ] respectively (for the meanings of the symbols, see English phonology). The first two of these are examples of affrication.



    Unlike yod-dropping, yod-coalescence frequently occurs with clusters which would be considered to span a syllable boundary. It thus commonly occurs before unstressed syllables. For example, in educate, the /dj/ cluster would not usually be subject to yod-dropping (in General American, say), as the /d/ is assigned to the previous syllable, but it commonly coalesces to [dʒ]. Below are a few examples of universal yod-coalescence.




    • /tj/→/tʃ/ in most words ending -ture, such as nature /ˈneɪtʃər/

    • /dj/→/dʒ/ in soldier /ˈsoʊldʒər/

    • /sj/→/ʃ/ in words ending -ssure, such as pressure /ˈprɛʃər/ (also in words ending consonant+sure, consonant+sion, -tion)

    • /zj/→/ʒ/ in words ending vowel+sure, such as measure /ˈmɛʒər/ (also vowel+sion)




    English has two affricate phonemes, /t͡ʃ/ and /d͡ʒ/, but that’s not what these are here. They are not phonemic. Because this is a phonological effect, when it happens here it is not phonemic, just a phonological allophone that doesn’t alter which word is perceived to have been said.



    This is a common process in many languages, not just English, because it happens as a result of the difficulty in clearly and cleaning moving from the stop to the yod (the /j/ if you would). Think of the words situation and soldier, where the palatalization has been going on for so long that it’s now completely standard and would sound funny if you didn’t do it.



    To demonstrate how the same process that produces the palatalized affricate of English did you occurs elsewhere, let’s look at a bit of Romance phonology, where we find this same thing can also happen with such combinations as Spanish en yerba in rapid speech by many native speakers where that turns into something that an English speaker might hear as the "j" of judge, which is really /d͡ʒ/.



    This sort of thing happened historically as the yod that appeared in Proto-Romance changed how things were said (and eventually, spelled) compared with classical Latin. Although English is not a Romance language, the many Latin words it adopted from Norman French had lots of these effects going on in them (plus a few that were found only in French such as chair < L. cathedra and cherry < L. cerasum being affricates now in English).



    In Romance you can see these yod effects both historically and today. Historic examples include Portuguese chover < VL. plovere (think of the fancy word pluvious in English) and Spanish llover from the same origin. The modern-day effects can be seen in how at times the /j/ sound in Spanish, including in the word yo spoken emphatically and in llover as pronounced by most yeísta speakers, can easily enough become affricated into [ɟ͡ʝ], a sound that English speakers hear as the /d͡ʒ/ in judge. There are many old jokes about Spanish speakers pronouncing in Yale the way an English speaker would pronounce in jail because of this. This happens within Spanish words, too, like enyesar which phonemically matches its spelling /enyeˈsaɾ/ but phonologically can come out as [e̞ɲɟ͡ʝe̞ˈsaɾ].



    So the palatalization process of yod coalescence that produces fused affricates occurs naturally not just in English but in many languages. It is both an historical process and an ongoing one that continues to this day.






    share|improve this answer


























    • Thanks for the reply. If I'm honest, I didn't understand anything, it's not that you didn't explain it right, it's just I'm just starting in learning, and everything you wrote seemed to complex for me :(. as I said, your explanation might be really clear! but I couldn't quite understand at all. Someone told me the other day, "fortis, CLIPPED AE" I didn't understand a thing. I'm sorry, I'm trying my best.

      – Carlos Fernandez
      3 hours ago











    • @CarlosFernandez I’ve added some more examples, including Spanish ones, in case this helps you see what I mean.

      – tchrist
      2 hours ago
















    2














    This is the commonplace phonological phenomenon: palatalized affrication under the influence of yod coalescence. Affrication is when a non-affricate sound is replaced by an affricate (that is, a stop plus a fricative), while yod coalescence here is when the rising diphthong starting with /j/ causes the previous stop to become palatalized.



    Wikipedia observes:




    Yod-coalescence



    Yod-coalescence is a process that palatalizes the clusters [dj], [tj], [sj] and [zj] into [dʒ], [tʃ], [ʃ] and [ʒ] respectively (for the meanings of the symbols, see English phonology). The first two of these are examples of affrication.



    Unlike yod-dropping, yod-coalescence frequently occurs with clusters which would be considered to span a syllable boundary. It thus commonly occurs before unstressed syllables. For example, in educate, the /dj/ cluster would not usually be subject to yod-dropping (in General American, say), as the /d/ is assigned to the previous syllable, but it commonly coalesces to [dʒ]. Below are a few examples of universal yod-coalescence.




    • /tj/→/tʃ/ in most words ending -ture, such as nature /ˈneɪtʃər/

    • /dj/→/dʒ/ in soldier /ˈsoʊldʒər/

    • /sj/→/ʃ/ in words ending -ssure, such as pressure /ˈprɛʃər/ (also in words ending consonant+sure, consonant+sion, -tion)

    • /zj/→/ʒ/ in words ending vowel+sure, such as measure /ˈmɛʒər/ (also vowel+sion)




    English has two affricate phonemes, /t͡ʃ/ and /d͡ʒ/, but that’s not what these are here. They are not phonemic. Because this is a phonological effect, when it happens here it is not phonemic, just a phonological allophone that doesn’t alter which word is perceived to have been said.



    This is a common process in many languages, not just English, because it happens as a result of the difficulty in clearly and cleaning moving from the stop to the yod (the /j/ if you would). Think of the words situation and soldier, where the palatalization has been going on for so long that it’s now completely standard and would sound funny if you didn’t do it.



    To demonstrate how the same process that produces the palatalized affricate of English did you occurs elsewhere, let’s look at a bit of Romance phonology, where we find this same thing can also happen with such combinations as Spanish en yerba in rapid speech by many native speakers where that turns into something that an English speaker might hear as the "j" of judge, which is really /d͡ʒ/.



    This sort of thing happened historically as the yod that appeared in Proto-Romance changed how things were said (and eventually, spelled) compared with classical Latin. Although English is not a Romance language, the many Latin words it adopted from Norman French had lots of these effects going on in them (plus a few that were found only in French such as chair < L. cathedra and cherry < L. cerasum being affricates now in English).



    In Romance you can see these yod effects both historically and today. Historic examples include Portuguese chover < VL. plovere (think of the fancy word pluvious in English) and Spanish llover from the same origin. The modern-day effects can be seen in how at times the /j/ sound in Spanish, including in the word yo spoken emphatically and in llover as pronounced by most yeísta speakers, can easily enough become affricated into [ɟ͡ʝ], a sound that English speakers hear as the /d͡ʒ/ in judge. There are many old jokes about Spanish speakers pronouncing in Yale the way an English speaker would pronounce in jail because of this. This happens within Spanish words, too, like enyesar which phonemically matches its spelling /enyeˈsaɾ/ but phonologically can come out as [e̞ɲɟ͡ʝe̞ˈsaɾ].



    So the palatalization process of yod coalescence that produces fused affricates occurs naturally not just in English but in many languages. It is both an historical process and an ongoing one that continues to this day.






    share|improve this answer


























    • Thanks for the reply. If I'm honest, I didn't understand anything, it's not that you didn't explain it right, it's just I'm just starting in learning, and everything you wrote seemed to complex for me :(. as I said, your explanation might be really clear! but I couldn't quite understand at all. Someone told me the other day, "fortis, CLIPPED AE" I didn't understand a thing. I'm sorry, I'm trying my best.

      – Carlos Fernandez
      3 hours ago











    • @CarlosFernandez I’ve added some more examples, including Spanish ones, in case this helps you see what I mean.

      – tchrist
      2 hours ago














    2












    2








    2







    This is the commonplace phonological phenomenon: palatalized affrication under the influence of yod coalescence. Affrication is when a non-affricate sound is replaced by an affricate (that is, a stop plus a fricative), while yod coalescence here is when the rising diphthong starting with /j/ causes the previous stop to become palatalized.



    Wikipedia observes:




    Yod-coalescence



    Yod-coalescence is a process that palatalizes the clusters [dj], [tj], [sj] and [zj] into [dʒ], [tʃ], [ʃ] and [ʒ] respectively (for the meanings of the symbols, see English phonology). The first two of these are examples of affrication.



    Unlike yod-dropping, yod-coalescence frequently occurs with clusters which would be considered to span a syllable boundary. It thus commonly occurs before unstressed syllables. For example, in educate, the /dj/ cluster would not usually be subject to yod-dropping (in General American, say), as the /d/ is assigned to the previous syllable, but it commonly coalesces to [dʒ]. Below are a few examples of universal yod-coalescence.




    • /tj/→/tʃ/ in most words ending -ture, such as nature /ˈneɪtʃər/

    • /dj/→/dʒ/ in soldier /ˈsoʊldʒər/

    • /sj/→/ʃ/ in words ending -ssure, such as pressure /ˈprɛʃər/ (also in words ending consonant+sure, consonant+sion, -tion)

    • /zj/→/ʒ/ in words ending vowel+sure, such as measure /ˈmɛʒər/ (also vowel+sion)




    English has two affricate phonemes, /t͡ʃ/ and /d͡ʒ/, but that’s not what these are here. They are not phonemic. Because this is a phonological effect, when it happens here it is not phonemic, just a phonological allophone that doesn’t alter which word is perceived to have been said.



    This is a common process in many languages, not just English, because it happens as a result of the difficulty in clearly and cleaning moving from the stop to the yod (the /j/ if you would). Think of the words situation and soldier, where the palatalization has been going on for so long that it’s now completely standard and would sound funny if you didn’t do it.



    To demonstrate how the same process that produces the palatalized affricate of English did you occurs elsewhere, let’s look at a bit of Romance phonology, where we find this same thing can also happen with such combinations as Spanish en yerba in rapid speech by many native speakers where that turns into something that an English speaker might hear as the "j" of judge, which is really /d͡ʒ/.



    This sort of thing happened historically as the yod that appeared in Proto-Romance changed how things were said (and eventually, spelled) compared with classical Latin. Although English is not a Romance language, the many Latin words it adopted from Norman French had lots of these effects going on in them (plus a few that were found only in French such as chair < L. cathedra and cherry < L. cerasum being affricates now in English).



    In Romance you can see these yod effects both historically and today. Historic examples include Portuguese chover < VL. plovere (think of the fancy word pluvious in English) and Spanish llover from the same origin. The modern-day effects can be seen in how at times the /j/ sound in Spanish, including in the word yo spoken emphatically and in llover as pronounced by most yeísta speakers, can easily enough become affricated into [ɟ͡ʝ], a sound that English speakers hear as the /d͡ʒ/ in judge. There are many old jokes about Spanish speakers pronouncing in Yale the way an English speaker would pronounce in jail because of this. This happens within Spanish words, too, like enyesar which phonemically matches its spelling /enyeˈsaɾ/ but phonologically can come out as [e̞ɲɟ͡ʝe̞ˈsaɾ].



    So the palatalization process of yod coalescence that produces fused affricates occurs naturally not just in English but in many languages. It is both an historical process and an ongoing one that continues to this day.






    share|improve this answer















    This is the commonplace phonological phenomenon: palatalized affrication under the influence of yod coalescence. Affrication is when a non-affricate sound is replaced by an affricate (that is, a stop plus a fricative), while yod coalescence here is when the rising diphthong starting with /j/ causes the previous stop to become palatalized.



    Wikipedia observes:




    Yod-coalescence



    Yod-coalescence is a process that palatalizes the clusters [dj], [tj], [sj] and [zj] into [dʒ], [tʃ], [ʃ] and [ʒ] respectively (for the meanings of the symbols, see English phonology). The first two of these are examples of affrication.



    Unlike yod-dropping, yod-coalescence frequently occurs with clusters which would be considered to span a syllable boundary. It thus commonly occurs before unstressed syllables. For example, in educate, the /dj/ cluster would not usually be subject to yod-dropping (in General American, say), as the /d/ is assigned to the previous syllable, but it commonly coalesces to [dʒ]. Below are a few examples of universal yod-coalescence.




    • /tj/→/tʃ/ in most words ending -ture, such as nature /ˈneɪtʃər/

    • /dj/→/dʒ/ in soldier /ˈsoʊldʒər/

    • /sj/→/ʃ/ in words ending -ssure, such as pressure /ˈprɛʃər/ (also in words ending consonant+sure, consonant+sion, -tion)

    • /zj/→/ʒ/ in words ending vowel+sure, such as measure /ˈmɛʒər/ (also vowel+sion)




    English has two affricate phonemes, /t͡ʃ/ and /d͡ʒ/, but that’s not what these are here. They are not phonemic. Because this is a phonological effect, when it happens here it is not phonemic, just a phonological allophone that doesn’t alter which word is perceived to have been said.



    This is a common process in many languages, not just English, because it happens as a result of the difficulty in clearly and cleaning moving from the stop to the yod (the /j/ if you would). Think of the words situation and soldier, where the palatalization has been going on for so long that it’s now completely standard and would sound funny if you didn’t do it.



    To demonstrate how the same process that produces the palatalized affricate of English did you occurs elsewhere, let’s look at a bit of Romance phonology, where we find this same thing can also happen with such combinations as Spanish en yerba in rapid speech by many native speakers where that turns into something that an English speaker might hear as the "j" of judge, which is really /d͡ʒ/.



    This sort of thing happened historically as the yod that appeared in Proto-Romance changed how things were said (and eventually, spelled) compared with classical Latin. Although English is not a Romance language, the many Latin words it adopted from Norman French had lots of these effects going on in them (plus a few that were found only in French such as chair < L. cathedra and cherry < L. cerasum being affricates now in English).



    In Romance you can see these yod effects both historically and today. Historic examples include Portuguese chover < VL. plovere (think of the fancy word pluvious in English) and Spanish llover from the same origin. The modern-day effects can be seen in how at times the /j/ sound in Spanish, including in the word yo spoken emphatically and in llover as pronounced by most yeísta speakers, can easily enough become affricated into [ɟ͡ʝ], a sound that English speakers hear as the /d͡ʒ/ in judge. There are many old jokes about Spanish speakers pronouncing in Yale the way an English speaker would pronounce in jail because of this. This happens within Spanish words, too, like enyesar which phonemically matches its spelling /enyeˈsaɾ/ but phonologically can come out as [e̞ɲɟ͡ʝe̞ˈsaɾ].



    So the palatalization process of yod coalescence that produces fused affricates occurs naturally not just in English but in many languages. It is both an historical process and an ongoing one that continues to this day.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 1 hour ago

























    answered 3 hours ago









    tchristtchrist

    109k28290464




    109k28290464













    • Thanks for the reply. If I'm honest, I didn't understand anything, it's not that you didn't explain it right, it's just I'm just starting in learning, and everything you wrote seemed to complex for me :(. as I said, your explanation might be really clear! but I couldn't quite understand at all. Someone told me the other day, "fortis, CLIPPED AE" I didn't understand a thing. I'm sorry, I'm trying my best.

      – Carlos Fernandez
      3 hours ago











    • @CarlosFernandez I’ve added some more examples, including Spanish ones, in case this helps you see what I mean.

      – tchrist
      2 hours ago



















    • Thanks for the reply. If I'm honest, I didn't understand anything, it's not that you didn't explain it right, it's just I'm just starting in learning, and everything you wrote seemed to complex for me :(. as I said, your explanation might be really clear! but I couldn't quite understand at all. Someone told me the other day, "fortis, CLIPPED AE" I didn't understand a thing. I'm sorry, I'm trying my best.

      – Carlos Fernandez
      3 hours ago











    • @CarlosFernandez I’ve added some more examples, including Spanish ones, in case this helps you see what I mean.

      – tchrist
      2 hours ago

















    Thanks for the reply. If I'm honest, I didn't understand anything, it's not that you didn't explain it right, it's just I'm just starting in learning, and everything you wrote seemed to complex for me :(. as I said, your explanation might be really clear! but I couldn't quite understand at all. Someone told me the other day, "fortis, CLIPPED AE" I didn't understand a thing. I'm sorry, I'm trying my best.

    – Carlos Fernandez
    3 hours ago





    Thanks for the reply. If I'm honest, I didn't understand anything, it's not that you didn't explain it right, it's just I'm just starting in learning, and everything you wrote seemed to complex for me :(. as I said, your explanation might be really clear! but I couldn't quite understand at all. Someone told me the other day, "fortis, CLIPPED AE" I didn't understand a thing. I'm sorry, I'm trying my best.

    – Carlos Fernandez
    3 hours ago













    @CarlosFernandez I’ve added some more examples, including Spanish ones, in case this helps you see what I mean.

    – tchrist
    2 hours ago





    @CarlosFernandez I’ve added some more examples, including Spanish ones, in case this helps you see what I mean.

    – tchrist
    2 hours ago













    1














    It is caused by lazy enunciation of the "consonant" Y which requires the tip of the tongue to move away from the teeth and palate. The J sound comes out when the tongue isn't moved as far.






    share|improve this answer
























    • Why the DV please, do you know @tchrist?

      – Weather Vane
      3 hours ago











    • You should probably refer to those not as Y and J sounds, but instead respectively as the /j/ sound from the word you versus the /d͡ʒ/ sound from the word Jew. Otherwise you may confuse people. Also, your answer is quite short.

      – tchrist
      2 hours ago








    • 1





      All languages have connected speech phenomena. As an interpreter, this is very close to my heart. It really doesn't matter what language you speak. They all change in actual speech. So, "did you" sounds like "didjew" whether BrE or AmE, or "didya". Sorry, no IPA for me today. Your description is technically correct, though. Perhaps the term lazy ain't the best though one could use lazy technically, I suppose. Upvote for me since it actually explains the articulatory mechanism.

      – Lambie
      2 hours ago


















    1














    It is caused by lazy enunciation of the "consonant" Y which requires the tip of the tongue to move away from the teeth and palate. The J sound comes out when the tongue isn't moved as far.






    share|improve this answer
























    • Why the DV please, do you know @tchrist?

      – Weather Vane
      3 hours ago











    • You should probably refer to those not as Y and J sounds, but instead respectively as the /j/ sound from the word you versus the /d͡ʒ/ sound from the word Jew. Otherwise you may confuse people. Also, your answer is quite short.

      – tchrist
      2 hours ago








    • 1





      All languages have connected speech phenomena. As an interpreter, this is very close to my heart. It really doesn't matter what language you speak. They all change in actual speech. So, "did you" sounds like "didjew" whether BrE or AmE, or "didya". Sorry, no IPA for me today. Your description is technically correct, though. Perhaps the term lazy ain't the best though one could use lazy technically, I suppose. Upvote for me since it actually explains the articulatory mechanism.

      – Lambie
      2 hours ago
















    1












    1








    1







    It is caused by lazy enunciation of the "consonant" Y which requires the tip of the tongue to move away from the teeth and palate. The J sound comes out when the tongue isn't moved as far.






    share|improve this answer













    It is caused by lazy enunciation of the "consonant" Y which requires the tip of the tongue to move away from the teeth and palate. The J sound comes out when the tongue isn't moved as far.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 3 hours ago









    Weather VaneWeather Vane

    1,970313




    1,970313













    • Why the DV please, do you know @tchrist?

      – Weather Vane
      3 hours ago











    • You should probably refer to those not as Y and J sounds, but instead respectively as the /j/ sound from the word you versus the /d͡ʒ/ sound from the word Jew. Otherwise you may confuse people. Also, your answer is quite short.

      – tchrist
      2 hours ago








    • 1





      All languages have connected speech phenomena. As an interpreter, this is very close to my heart. It really doesn't matter what language you speak. They all change in actual speech. So, "did you" sounds like "didjew" whether BrE or AmE, or "didya". Sorry, no IPA for me today. Your description is technically correct, though. Perhaps the term lazy ain't the best though one could use lazy technically, I suppose. Upvote for me since it actually explains the articulatory mechanism.

      – Lambie
      2 hours ago





















    • Why the DV please, do you know @tchrist?

      – Weather Vane
      3 hours ago











    • You should probably refer to those not as Y and J sounds, but instead respectively as the /j/ sound from the word you versus the /d͡ʒ/ sound from the word Jew. Otherwise you may confuse people. Also, your answer is quite short.

      – tchrist
      2 hours ago








    • 1





      All languages have connected speech phenomena. As an interpreter, this is very close to my heart. It really doesn't matter what language you speak. They all change in actual speech. So, "did you" sounds like "didjew" whether BrE or AmE, or "didya". Sorry, no IPA for me today. Your description is technically correct, though. Perhaps the term lazy ain't the best though one could use lazy technically, I suppose. Upvote for me since it actually explains the articulatory mechanism.

      – Lambie
      2 hours ago



















    Why the DV please, do you know @tchrist?

    – Weather Vane
    3 hours ago





    Why the DV please, do you know @tchrist?

    – Weather Vane
    3 hours ago













    You should probably refer to those not as Y and J sounds, but instead respectively as the /j/ sound from the word you versus the /d͡ʒ/ sound from the word Jew. Otherwise you may confuse people. Also, your answer is quite short.

    – tchrist
    2 hours ago







    You should probably refer to those not as Y and J sounds, but instead respectively as the /j/ sound from the word you versus the /d͡ʒ/ sound from the word Jew. Otherwise you may confuse people. Also, your answer is quite short.

    – tchrist
    2 hours ago






    1




    1





    All languages have connected speech phenomena. As an interpreter, this is very close to my heart. It really doesn't matter what language you speak. They all change in actual speech. So, "did you" sounds like "didjew" whether BrE or AmE, or "didya". Sorry, no IPA for me today. Your description is technically correct, though. Perhaps the term lazy ain't the best though one could use lazy technically, I suppose. Upvote for me since it actually explains the articulatory mechanism.

    – Lambie
    2 hours ago







    All languages have connected speech phenomena. As an interpreter, this is very close to my heart. It really doesn't matter what language you speak. They all change in actual speech. So, "did you" sounds like "didjew" whether BrE or AmE, or "didya". Sorry, no IPA for me today. Your description is technically correct, though. Perhaps the term lazy ain't the best though one could use lazy technically, I suppose. Upvote for me since it actually explains the articulatory mechanism.

    – Lambie
    2 hours ago













    1














    The answer of tchrist is well researched, even if it is hard to understand. Here is something you can do to understand how it comes about. Take the sentence: "Don't you dare call me a liar like that!" Stand in front of a mirror and say the word 'don't', stopping dead on the 't' and watching and feeling very carefully exactly where you mouth and tongue are at that point. Notice that your lips are pushed slightly forward. And your tongue is touching the roof of your mouth just behind your teeth.



    Now say 'you', observing very carefully where your lips and tongue are at the very beginning. Can you tell that you lips have to be further apart and further back? And that you tongue has had to move back in your mouth and the tip has moved down from the roof? If not just try making the 'y' shape silently and feel how it feels.



    Now say 'you' and freeze at the end. Do you see and feel that your lips are (more-or-less) back where they were at the end of 'don't'? I hope so. If you can, then can you now see that, roughly speaking, to say "don't you" you have do move your lips and tongue from where they are at the end of "don't" and more-or less back again. So the quickest and easiest thing to do is not to bother. Just leave them where they are at the end of 'don't' and what comes out is "doan chew".



    Now try saying the whole sentence faster and faster and, even if you haven't got it already you'll see what I mean. I hope.



    A similar explanation applies to "Mind your backs". But, because the starting point is a 'd' rather than a 't', you say "Mine jaw backs"!






    share|improve this answer




























      1














      The answer of tchrist is well researched, even if it is hard to understand. Here is something you can do to understand how it comes about. Take the sentence: "Don't you dare call me a liar like that!" Stand in front of a mirror and say the word 'don't', stopping dead on the 't' and watching and feeling very carefully exactly where you mouth and tongue are at that point. Notice that your lips are pushed slightly forward. And your tongue is touching the roof of your mouth just behind your teeth.



      Now say 'you', observing very carefully where your lips and tongue are at the very beginning. Can you tell that you lips have to be further apart and further back? And that you tongue has had to move back in your mouth and the tip has moved down from the roof? If not just try making the 'y' shape silently and feel how it feels.



      Now say 'you' and freeze at the end. Do you see and feel that your lips are (more-or-less) back where they were at the end of 'don't'? I hope so. If you can, then can you now see that, roughly speaking, to say "don't you" you have do move your lips and tongue from where they are at the end of "don't" and more-or less back again. So the quickest and easiest thing to do is not to bother. Just leave them where they are at the end of 'don't' and what comes out is "doan chew".



      Now try saying the whole sentence faster and faster and, even if you haven't got it already you'll see what I mean. I hope.



      A similar explanation applies to "Mind your backs". But, because the starting point is a 'd' rather than a 't', you say "Mine jaw backs"!






      share|improve this answer


























        1












        1








        1







        The answer of tchrist is well researched, even if it is hard to understand. Here is something you can do to understand how it comes about. Take the sentence: "Don't you dare call me a liar like that!" Stand in front of a mirror and say the word 'don't', stopping dead on the 't' and watching and feeling very carefully exactly where you mouth and tongue are at that point. Notice that your lips are pushed slightly forward. And your tongue is touching the roof of your mouth just behind your teeth.



        Now say 'you', observing very carefully where your lips and tongue are at the very beginning. Can you tell that you lips have to be further apart and further back? And that you tongue has had to move back in your mouth and the tip has moved down from the roof? If not just try making the 'y' shape silently and feel how it feels.



        Now say 'you' and freeze at the end. Do you see and feel that your lips are (more-or-less) back where they were at the end of 'don't'? I hope so. If you can, then can you now see that, roughly speaking, to say "don't you" you have do move your lips and tongue from where they are at the end of "don't" and more-or less back again. So the quickest and easiest thing to do is not to bother. Just leave them where they are at the end of 'don't' and what comes out is "doan chew".



        Now try saying the whole sentence faster and faster and, even if you haven't got it already you'll see what I mean. I hope.



        A similar explanation applies to "Mind your backs". But, because the starting point is a 'd' rather than a 't', you say "Mine jaw backs"!






        share|improve this answer













        The answer of tchrist is well researched, even if it is hard to understand. Here is something you can do to understand how it comes about. Take the sentence: "Don't you dare call me a liar like that!" Stand in front of a mirror and say the word 'don't', stopping dead on the 't' and watching and feeling very carefully exactly where you mouth and tongue are at that point. Notice that your lips are pushed slightly forward. And your tongue is touching the roof of your mouth just behind your teeth.



        Now say 'you', observing very carefully where your lips and tongue are at the very beginning. Can you tell that you lips have to be further apart and further back? And that you tongue has had to move back in your mouth and the tip has moved down from the roof? If not just try making the 'y' shape silently and feel how it feels.



        Now say 'you' and freeze at the end. Do you see and feel that your lips are (more-or-less) back where they were at the end of 'don't'? I hope so. If you can, then can you now see that, roughly speaking, to say "don't you" you have do move your lips and tongue from where they are at the end of "don't" and more-or less back again. So the quickest and easiest thing to do is not to bother. Just leave them where they are at the end of 'don't' and what comes out is "doan chew".



        Now try saying the whole sentence faster and faster and, even if you haven't got it already you'll see what I mean. I hope.



        A similar explanation applies to "Mind your backs". But, because the starting point is a 'd' rather than a 't', you say "Mine jaw backs"!







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 1 hour ago









        TuffyTuffy

        3,4411618




        3,4411618






























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