If I want everyone to be a friend to everyone, am I an anarchist?
I am not defining friendship. It's easier to say what is not friendship. In most aspects there are some signifiers of friendship. What language do you use, how do you treat people, what do you feel. People are not going to use formal language in a friendly conversation. People experience compassion towards their friends. People do not treat each other as property if they are friends.
There are several other things friends do not do to each other.
But an important one is that friends do not rule each other. They don't think of each other as of subordinates. Doesn't it make my idea a type of anarchy?
political-philosophy terminology
|
show 7 more comments
I am not defining friendship. It's easier to say what is not friendship. In most aspects there are some signifiers of friendship. What language do you use, how do you treat people, what do you feel. People are not going to use formal language in a friendly conversation. People experience compassion towards their friends. People do not treat each other as property if they are friends.
There are several other things friends do not do to each other.
But an important one is that friends do not rule each other. They don't think of each other as of subordinates. Doesn't it make my idea a type of anarchy?
political-philosophy terminology
I could be friends with a somewhat narcissistic individual who does frequently "rule" me... There are many interpersonal dynamics your friendship model would not allow, as such it is too simple and restrictive. As for anarchy, it does not mean that if I accept "anarchy" in my sphere of friends, that I would allow it in a political sphere. Even if I am a friend to everyone I can still expect my friends to behave differently in certain aspects of social interaction: political, economic, professional, etc.
– christo183
7 hours ago
@christo Economic, political, professional, academical, etc. is invented for non-friends. The idea is that people never play social roles. Regarding narcissic individuals, they simply need to learn to love themselves without admiration.
– rus9384
7 hours ago
It's more like 'humanism'
– Richard
7 hours ago
@Richard Humanism makes too much claims that I do not. Also, there is a plenty of humanists, but what they find valuable are papers like declarations and so on. I find their greatest value in toilet. Papers are nothing to me, only mental contents are what I pay attention to.
– rus9384
5 hours ago
How can you tell me that friends have no authority over each other without defining friendship? Friends don't say false things!
– elliot svensson
3 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
I am not defining friendship. It's easier to say what is not friendship. In most aspects there are some signifiers of friendship. What language do you use, how do you treat people, what do you feel. People are not going to use formal language in a friendly conversation. People experience compassion towards their friends. People do not treat each other as property if they are friends.
There are several other things friends do not do to each other.
But an important one is that friends do not rule each other. They don't think of each other as of subordinates. Doesn't it make my idea a type of anarchy?
political-philosophy terminology
I am not defining friendship. It's easier to say what is not friendship. In most aspects there are some signifiers of friendship. What language do you use, how do you treat people, what do you feel. People are not going to use formal language in a friendly conversation. People experience compassion towards their friends. People do not treat each other as property if they are friends.
There are several other things friends do not do to each other.
But an important one is that friends do not rule each other. They don't think of each other as of subordinates. Doesn't it make my idea a type of anarchy?
political-philosophy terminology
political-philosophy terminology
asked 8 hours ago
rus9384rus9384
1,2742726
1,2742726
I could be friends with a somewhat narcissistic individual who does frequently "rule" me... There are many interpersonal dynamics your friendship model would not allow, as such it is too simple and restrictive. As for anarchy, it does not mean that if I accept "anarchy" in my sphere of friends, that I would allow it in a political sphere. Even if I am a friend to everyone I can still expect my friends to behave differently in certain aspects of social interaction: political, economic, professional, etc.
– christo183
7 hours ago
@christo Economic, political, professional, academical, etc. is invented for non-friends. The idea is that people never play social roles. Regarding narcissic individuals, they simply need to learn to love themselves without admiration.
– rus9384
7 hours ago
It's more like 'humanism'
– Richard
7 hours ago
@Richard Humanism makes too much claims that I do not. Also, there is a plenty of humanists, but what they find valuable are papers like declarations and so on. I find their greatest value in toilet. Papers are nothing to me, only mental contents are what I pay attention to.
– rus9384
5 hours ago
How can you tell me that friends have no authority over each other without defining friendship? Friends don't say false things!
– elliot svensson
3 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
I could be friends with a somewhat narcissistic individual who does frequently "rule" me... There are many interpersonal dynamics your friendship model would not allow, as such it is too simple and restrictive. As for anarchy, it does not mean that if I accept "anarchy" in my sphere of friends, that I would allow it in a political sphere. Even if I am a friend to everyone I can still expect my friends to behave differently in certain aspects of social interaction: political, economic, professional, etc.
– christo183
7 hours ago
@christo Economic, political, professional, academical, etc. is invented for non-friends. The idea is that people never play social roles. Regarding narcissic individuals, they simply need to learn to love themselves without admiration.
– rus9384
7 hours ago
It's more like 'humanism'
– Richard
7 hours ago
@Richard Humanism makes too much claims that I do not. Also, there is a plenty of humanists, but what they find valuable are papers like declarations and so on. I find their greatest value in toilet. Papers are nothing to me, only mental contents are what I pay attention to.
– rus9384
5 hours ago
How can you tell me that friends have no authority over each other without defining friendship? Friends don't say false things!
– elliot svensson
3 hours ago
I could be friends with a somewhat narcissistic individual who does frequently "rule" me... There are many interpersonal dynamics your friendship model would not allow, as such it is too simple and restrictive. As for anarchy, it does not mean that if I accept "anarchy" in my sphere of friends, that I would allow it in a political sphere. Even if I am a friend to everyone I can still expect my friends to behave differently in certain aspects of social interaction: political, economic, professional, etc.
– christo183
7 hours ago
I could be friends with a somewhat narcissistic individual who does frequently "rule" me... There are many interpersonal dynamics your friendship model would not allow, as such it is too simple and restrictive. As for anarchy, it does not mean that if I accept "anarchy" in my sphere of friends, that I would allow it in a political sphere. Even if I am a friend to everyone I can still expect my friends to behave differently in certain aspects of social interaction: political, economic, professional, etc.
– christo183
7 hours ago
@christo Economic, political, professional, academical, etc. is invented for non-friends. The idea is that people never play social roles. Regarding narcissic individuals, they simply need to learn to love themselves without admiration.
– rus9384
7 hours ago
@christo Economic, political, professional, academical, etc. is invented for non-friends. The idea is that people never play social roles. Regarding narcissic individuals, they simply need to learn to love themselves without admiration.
– rus9384
7 hours ago
It's more like 'humanism'
– Richard
7 hours ago
It's more like 'humanism'
– Richard
7 hours ago
@Richard Humanism makes too much claims that I do not. Also, there is a plenty of humanists, but what they find valuable are papers like declarations and so on. I find their greatest value in toilet. Papers are nothing to me, only mental contents are what I pay attention to.
– rus9384
5 hours ago
@Richard Humanism makes too much claims that I do not. Also, there is a plenty of humanists, but what they find valuable are papers like declarations and so on. I find their greatest value in toilet. Papers are nothing to me, only mental contents are what I pay attention to.
– rus9384
5 hours ago
How can you tell me that friends have no authority over each other without defining friendship? Friends don't say false things!
– elliot svensson
3 hours ago
How can you tell me that friends have no authority over each other without defining friendship? Friends don't say false things!
– elliot svensson
3 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
In friendship there is a mutual understanding.
These are the definitions of 'anarchy' given in some dictionaries:
A lack of organization and control in a society or group, esp.
because either there is no government or it has no power:
A state of disorder due to absence or non-recognition of authority
or other controlling systems.
Absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual,
regarded as a political ideal.
If you describe a situation as anarchy, you mean that nobody seems
to be paying any attention to rules or laws.
A state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of
governmental authority.
Now you may check these definitions giving importance to the bold words without forgetting the term, 'mutual understanding'. Can you still say this is a type of anarchy? I believe you can't. If so, what you doubted is wrong.
This doubt is because we normally don't need to discuss this type of a weird state and so we don't need to name it. Actually this is a new state. Though there is no physical presence, an invisible governance is happening and it is by 'mutual understanding' among people. So we cannot categorically use the term anarchy.
add a comment |
Anarchism and politics
'Anarchism' as a matter of ordinary discourse is mainly tied to politics. An anarchist society is a voluntary, non-coercive social aggregate. There can be no legitimate government that exerts or threatens to use coercive power against its citizens. Political authority - the entitlement of a government to obedience - is inherently conflictive with individual autonomy, which is seen as an indefeasible value. Autonomy is exercised in precisely the voluntary social aggregates mentioned just above.
This concept of anarchism has to be outlined because it is pretty much, or so I believe, the main sense of the term in ordinary discourse.
Islands of anarchism
This doesn't mean, though, that even in a society where a government - the state - exerts or threatens to use coercive power against its citizens there cannot be social interactions from which coercion is absent. In a commune or a friendship, interactions can be marked by voluntary, non-coercive relationships. In this sense they are islands, small units, of anarchism within an overall coercive society.
**To the extent that your friendships are voluntary and non-coercive, they embody an element of anarchism. I put it this way because I don't think that wanting everyone to be a friend with everyone is necessary for anarchism. In an anarchist society, voluntary, non-coercive relations would hold even between people who were indifferent or antipathetic to each other. Nor, more to your point, is it sufficient. A and B might be friends yet A reject and B accept a supreme coercive power. Friendship dictates politics only up to a point because friends can have different views about the means - the instrumentalities - required or most likely to maintain civil peace and social justice. Whatever our friendship, you may think the state is an abomination while I see it as a means, even if a necessary evil, to promote my social ideals.
Foucault
We have learnt from Foucault that power is present in all social interactions. Friends may exercise power over each other even in ways neither or none recognises. But I don't think this nullifies my point. Anarchism focuses essentially and antagonistically on the supreme coercive power of the state; and a friendship typically avoids any counterpart to this.
Broadly speaking, Foucault was not interested in the kind of power that anarchists traditionally oppose :
a group of institutions and mechanisms which ensure the subservience of the
citizens of a given state . . . [nor] a mode of subjugation, which in contrast to
violence has the form of the rule ... [nor] a general system of domination exerted by
one group over another. (Michel Foucault, t, The History of Sexuality: Vol. 1 An Introduction, London: Allen Lane, 1979 : 92.)
Rather, Foucault holds a 'capillary' notion of power:
Most scholars emphasize the contrast between Foucault's relational conception of power and the more prevalent understanding of power as a property which can be possessed. They stress his sensitivity to the fluctuating network of power relations, his development of the "capillary" conception of
power - a micro-power which permeates all social strata producing and thus
constraining subjectivity - and his notion of bio-power, which he considered
to be an indispensable element in the development of capitalism. Some under-
score his constant endeavor to problematize the "normal," praising Foucault's
success in showing that phenomena which society deems permanent,
inevitable, and universal, are but a specific period's fabrication. Moreover,
commentators tend to agree that Foucault has opened a new path of critical
inquiry. (Neve Gordon, 'Foucault's Subject: An Ontological Reading', Polity, Vol. 31, No. 3 (Spring, 1999), pp. 395-414: 397.)
Dense as this quote is, it sends us in the right direction. Foucault does not see power as a property possessed by individuals or social units such as politicians, bureaucracy and the security forces or Hobbes' sovereign - at least not the power he's interested in - but as relational. A network of interpersonal relations, over which no-one has sole control and of which nobody has complete knowledge - creates us as 'subjects' and provides the language and concepts by which we 'construct' ourselves as persons or agents. It creates our self-understanding.
I am not entirely happy with this language and do not offer to appraise Foucault's idea of the subject - a shifting idea, I should add. My point is only that the anarchist is not as such concerned with Foucault's idea of how 'subjects' are created. The anarchist is concerned with and opposed to supreme coercive power, the entitlement of governments to obedience, and with the right environment in which for individuals to exercise their autonomy. Foucault takes a different (perhaps subtler) view of things, especially about the formation of the individual. But an anarchist need not agree with him; and this answer proceeds, respecting as it should the OP's question, from the viewpoint of the anarchist.
add a comment |
I think yes, but the kind of anarchy that is restricted by the boundary of friendship :) ... the question now is, if it is still anarchy if it has this boundary. I personaly would call this utopia.
New contributor
Utopia, because people do not even want to change themselves and their principles to make the world a more pleasant place...
– rus9384
7 hours ago
Would you have a reference to someone who takes a similar view? This would help support your answer and give the reader a place to go for more information. Welcome to Philosophy!
– Frank Hubeny
7 hours ago
add a comment |
You seem to have a biased picture of friendship infected by Enlightenment biases and a culture that by default identifies women's friendships as better than men's, and deduces that the principles that underlie them are superior. Since our family relationships are historically female-dominated, we often carry strong biases about relationships that are just not true of men relating to other men.
The overall pattern of male friendships often has hierarchy included. Men who are not exceptionally gifted in any visible way often like structure, and they take social direction and enjoy being led, in a way that most folks who talk about relationships do not understand at all. So, no, friendship and hierarchy have nothing to do with one another whatsoever. There are natural forms of friendship that are reasonable models for a society with identified leadership. But they are relationships between the class of people we define as being bad at relationships -- men of ordinary ambitions.
Leadership is not domination, there is no connection between being subordinate and being treated as property if you take away the context of economic competition and the threat of scarcity. Team sports are not about ownership, and they often involve a hierarchical organization. And in communities that fully embrace equality in value and resource allocation and hold an opposition to dominance and specialization, there are still traditions of leadership, for instance the Quaker tradition of eldering, later laid out as a movement toward "servant/leadership" by folks like Greenleaf.
Well, I also dismiss the notion of political correctness, so I can't say if that makes it feminine or not. I don't say that among friends everyone is equal. One will be less assertive, less initiative than another, but that's not what subordination means (at least to me). I thought it is "inescapable" hierarchy that causes problems. Also, I have not been basing on Enlightment picture of friendship and always treated friendship that way (at least as early as I was 3).
– rus9384
1 hour ago
There is no political correctness here, using principles from Critical Theory does not make one 'politically correct'. You just like finding things to dismiss and reject. So this is "escapable" hierarchy -- you have a good-natured fight and rearrange things. Your biases are the biases of your culture, and modern culture embeds Enlightenment principles, you can protest, but that is not proof of anything. The point is that this notion ignores a lot of reality -- men form hierarchical relationships and stay in them voluntarily, yet we have launched an agenda to insult hierarchies.
– jobermark
39 mins ago
If you don't define friendship, you don't define anarchy and you don't let anyone give interpretation to any of terms you use, like "subordinate", so they can do some exploring, then this is not a question, it is an exercise in guessing what the question might eventually be while you smack them down.
– jobermark
33 mins ago
How can you explain that I don't draw a parallel between religion and culture then (this distinction is a western invention and I live in a country that is somewhat western, but likes to talk about mythical West as of its enemy)? There are things which I agree upon with mainstream thought and there are those which I don't agree upon. And I still think there are differences between hierarchies in a friendship and, say, in a corporation. They are even stated in the post.
– rus9384
32 mins ago
Yes, *in the absence of economic competition and the threat of scarcity" covers this difference. But I assume you did not read that far before choosing to find some reason to insult me.
– jobermark
16 mins ago
|
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4 Answers
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4 Answers
4
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In friendship there is a mutual understanding.
These are the definitions of 'anarchy' given in some dictionaries:
A lack of organization and control in a society or group, esp.
because either there is no government or it has no power:
A state of disorder due to absence or non-recognition of authority
or other controlling systems.
Absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual,
regarded as a political ideal.
If you describe a situation as anarchy, you mean that nobody seems
to be paying any attention to rules or laws.
A state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of
governmental authority.
Now you may check these definitions giving importance to the bold words without forgetting the term, 'mutual understanding'. Can you still say this is a type of anarchy? I believe you can't. If so, what you doubted is wrong.
This doubt is because we normally don't need to discuss this type of a weird state and so we don't need to name it. Actually this is a new state. Though there is no physical presence, an invisible governance is happening and it is by 'mutual understanding' among people. So we cannot categorically use the term anarchy.
add a comment |
In friendship there is a mutual understanding.
These are the definitions of 'anarchy' given in some dictionaries:
A lack of organization and control in a society or group, esp.
because either there is no government or it has no power:
A state of disorder due to absence or non-recognition of authority
or other controlling systems.
Absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual,
regarded as a political ideal.
If you describe a situation as anarchy, you mean that nobody seems
to be paying any attention to rules or laws.
A state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of
governmental authority.
Now you may check these definitions giving importance to the bold words without forgetting the term, 'mutual understanding'. Can you still say this is a type of anarchy? I believe you can't. If so, what you doubted is wrong.
This doubt is because we normally don't need to discuss this type of a weird state and so we don't need to name it. Actually this is a new state. Though there is no physical presence, an invisible governance is happening and it is by 'mutual understanding' among people. So we cannot categorically use the term anarchy.
add a comment |
In friendship there is a mutual understanding.
These are the definitions of 'anarchy' given in some dictionaries:
A lack of organization and control in a society or group, esp.
because either there is no government or it has no power:
A state of disorder due to absence or non-recognition of authority
or other controlling systems.
Absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual,
regarded as a political ideal.
If you describe a situation as anarchy, you mean that nobody seems
to be paying any attention to rules or laws.
A state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of
governmental authority.
Now you may check these definitions giving importance to the bold words without forgetting the term, 'mutual understanding'. Can you still say this is a type of anarchy? I believe you can't. If so, what you doubted is wrong.
This doubt is because we normally don't need to discuss this type of a weird state and so we don't need to name it. Actually this is a new state. Though there is no physical presence, an invisible governance is happening and it is by 'mutual understanding' among people. So we cannot categorically use the term anarchy.
In friendship there is a mutual understanding.
These are the definitions of 'anarchy' given in some dictionaries:
A lack of organization and control in a society or group, esp.
because either there is no government or it has no power:
A state of disorder due to absence or non-recognition of authority
or other controlling systems.
Absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual,
regarded as a political ideal.
If you describe a situation as anarchy, you mean that nobody seems
to be paying any attention to rules or laws.
A state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of
governmental authority.
Now you may check these definitions giving importance to the bold words without forgetting the term, 'mutual understanding'. Can you still say this is a type of anarchy? I believe you can't. If so, what you doubted is wrong.
This doubt is because we normally don't need to discuss this type of a weird state and so we don't need to name it. Actually this is a new state. Though there is no physical presence, an invisible governance is happening and it is by 'mutual understanding' among people. So we cannot categorically use the term anarchy.
edited 3 hours ago
answered 5 hours ago
SonOfThoughtSonOfThought
1,61739
1,61739
add a comment |
add a comment |
Anarchism and politics
'Anarchism' as a matter of ordinary discourse is mainly tied to politics. An anarchist society is a voluntary, non-coercive social aggregate. There can be no legitimate government that exerts or threatens to use coercive power against its citizens. Political authority - the entitlement of a government to obedience - is inherently conflictive with individual autonomy, which is seen as an indefeasible value. Autonomy is exercised in precisely the voluntary social aggregates mentioned just above.
This concept of anarchism has to be outlined because it is pretty much, or so I believe, the main sense of the term in ordinary discourse.
Islands of anarchism
This doesn't mean, though, that even in a society where a government - the state - exerts or threatens to use coercive power against its citizens there cannot be social interactions from which coercion is absent. In a commune or a friendship, interactions can be marked by voluntary, non-coercive relationships. In this sense they are islands, small units, of anarchism within an overall coercive society.
**To the extent that your friendships are voluntary and non-coercive, they embody an element of anarchism. I put it this way because I don't think that wanting everyone to be a friend with everyone is necessary for anarchism. In an anarchist society, voluntary, non-coercive relations would hold even between people who were indifferent or antipathetic to each other. Nor, more to your point, is it sufficient. A and B might be friends yet A reject and B accept a supreme coercive power. Friendship dictates politics only up to a point because friends can have different views about the means - the instrumentalities - required or most likely to maintain civil peace and social justice. Whatever our friendship, you may think the state is an abomination while I see it as a means, even if a necessary evil, to promote my social ideals.
Foucault
We have learnt from Foucault that power is present in all social interactions. Friends may exercise power over each other even in ways neither or none recognises. But I don't think this nullifies my point. Anarchism focuses essentially and antagonistically on the supreme coercive power of the state; and a friendship typically avoids any counterpart to this.
Broadly speaking, Foucault was not interested in the kind of power that anarchists traditionally oppose :
a group of institutions and mechanisms which ensure the subservience of the
citizens of a given state . . . [nor] a mode of subjugation, which in contrast to
violence has the form of the rule ... [nor] a general system of domination exerted by
one group over another. (Michel Foucault, t, The History of Sexuality: Vol. 1 An Introduction, London: Allen Lane, 1979 : 92.)
Rather, Foucault holds a 'capillary' notion of power:
Most scholars emphasize the contrast between Foucault's relational conception of power and the more prevalent understanding of power as a property which can be possessed. They stress his sensitivity to the fluctuating network of power relations, his development of the "capillary" conception of
power - a micro-power which permeates all social strata producing and thus
constraining subjectivity - and his notion of bio-power, which he considered
to be an indispensable element in the development of capitalism. Some under-
score his constant endeavor to problematize the "normal," praising Foucault's
success in showing that phenomena which society deems permanent,
inevitable, and universal, are but a specific period's fabrication. Moreover,
commentators tend to agree that Foucault has opened a new path of critical
inquiry. (Neve Gordon, 'Foucault's Subject: An Ontological Reading', Polity, Vol. 31, No. 3 (Spring, 1999), pp. 395-414: 397.)
Dense as this quote is, it sends us in the right direction. Foucault does not see power as a property possessed by individuals or social units such as politicians, bureaucracy and the security forces or Hobbes' sovereign - at least not the power he's interested in - but as relational. A network of interpersonal relations, over which no-one has sole control and of which nobody has complete knowledge - creates us as 'subjects' and provides the language and concepts by which we 'construct' ourselves as persons or agents. It creates our self-understanding.
I am not entirely happy with this language and do not offer to appraise Foucault's idea of the subject - a shifting idea, I should add. My point is only that the anarchist is not as such concerned with Foucault's idea of how 'subjects' are created. The anarchist is concerned with and opposed to supreme coercive power, the entitlement of governments to obedience, and with the right environment in which for individuals to exercise their autonomy. Foucault takes a different (perhaps subtler) view of things, especially about the formation of the individual. But an anarchist need not agree with him; and this answer proceeds, respecting as it should the OP's question, from the viewpoint of the anarchist.
add a comment |
Anarchism and politics
'Anarchism' as a matter of ordinary discourse is mainly tied to politics. An anarchist society is a voluntary, non-coercive social aggregate. There can be no legitimate government that exerts or threatens to use coercive power against its citizens. Political authority - the entitlement of a government to obedience - is inherently conflictive with individual autonomy, which is seen as an indefeasible value. Autonomy is exercised in precisely the voluntary social aggregates mentioned just above.
This concept of anarchism has to be outlined because it is pretty much, or so I believe, the main sense of the term in ordinary discourse.
Islands of anarchism
This doesn't mean, though, that even in a society where a government - the state - exerts or threatens to use coercive power against its citizens there cannot be social interactions from which coercion is absent. In a commune or a friendship, interactions can be marked by voluntary, non-coercive relationships. In this sense they are islands, small units, of anarchism within an overall coercive society.
**To the extent that your friendships are voluntary and non-coercive, they embody an element of anarchism. I put it this way because I don't think that wanting everyone to be a friend with everyone is necessary for anarchism. In an anarchist society, voluntary, non-coercive relations would hold even between people who were indifferent or antipathetic to each other. Nor, more to your point, is it sufficient. A and B might be friends yet A reject and B accept a supreme coercive power. Friendship dictates politics only up to a point because friends can have different views about the means - the instrumentalities - required or most likely to maintain civil peace and social justice. Whatever our friendship, you may think the state is an abomination while I see it as a means, even if a necessary evil, to promote my social ideals.
Foucault
We have learnt from Foucault that power is present in all social interactions. Friends may exercise power over each other even in ways neither or none recognises. But I don't think this nullifies my point. Anarchism focuses essentially and antagonistically on the supreme coercive power of the state; and a friendship typically avoids any counterpart to this.
Broadly speaking, Foucault was not interested in the kind of power that anarchists traditionally oppose :
a group of institutions and mechanisms which ensure the subservience of the
citizens of a given state . . . [nor] a mode of subjugation, which in contrast to
violence has the form of the rule ... [nor] a general system of domination exerted by
one group over another. (Michel Foucault, t, The History of Sexuality: Vol. 1 An Introduction, London: Allen Lane, 1979 : 92.)
Rather, Foucault holds a 'capillary' notion of power:
Most scholars emphasize the contrast between Foucault's relational conception of power and the more prevalent understanding of power as a property which can be possessed. They stress his sensitivity to the fluctuating network of power relations, his development of the "capillary" conception of
power - a micro-power which permeates all social strata producing and thus
constraining subjectivity - and his notion of bio-power, which he considered
to be an indispensable element in the development of capitalism. Some under-
score his constant endeavor to problematize the "normal," praising Foucault's
success in showing that phenomena which society deems permanent,
inevitable, and universal, are but a specific period's fabrication. Moreover,
commentators tend to agree that Foucault has opened a new path of critical
inquiry. (Neve Gordon, 'Foucault's Subject: An Ontological Reading', Polity, Vol. 31, No. 3 (Spring, 1999), pp. 395-414: 397.)
Dense as this quote is, it sends us in the right direction. Foucault does not see power as a property possessed by individuals or social units such as politicians, bureaucracy and the security forces or Hobbes' sovereign - at least not the power he's interested in - but as relational. A network of interpersonal relations, over which no-one has sole control and of which nobody has complete knowledge - creates us as 'subjects' and provides the language and concepts by which we 'construct' ourselves as persons or agents. It creates our self-understanding.
I am not entirely happy with this language and do not offer to appraise Foucault's idea of the subject - a shifting idea, I should add. My point is only that the anarchist is not as such concerned with Foucault's idea of how 'subjects' are created. The anarchist is concerned with and opposed to supreme coercive power, the entitlement of governments to obedience, and with the right environment in which for individuals to exercise their autonomy. Foucault takes a different (perhaps subtler) view of things, especially about the formation of the individual. But an anarchist need not agree with him; and this answer proceeds, respecting as it should the OP's question, from the viewpoint of the anarchist.
add a comment |
Anarchism and politics
'Anarchism' as a matter of ordinary discourse is mainly tied to politics. An anarchist society is a voluntary, non-coercive social aggregate. There can be no legitimate government that exerts or threatens to use coercive power against its citizens. Political authority - the entitlement of a government to obedience - is inherently conflictive with individual autonomy, which is seen as an indefeasible value. Autonomy is exercised in precisely the voluntary social aggregates mentioned just above.
This concept of anarchism has to be outlined because it is pretty much, or so I believe, the main sense of the term in ordinary discourse.
Islands of anarchism
This doesn't mean, though, that even in a society where a government - the state - exerts or threatens to use coercive power against its citizens there cannot be social interactions from which coercion is absent. In a commune or a friendship, interactions can be marked by voluntary, non-coercive relationships. In this sense they are islands, small units, of anarchism within an overall coercive society.
**To the extent that your friendships are voluntary and non-coercive, they embody an element of anarchism. I put it this way because I don't think that wanting everyone to be a friend with everyone is necessary for anarchism. In an anarchist society, voluntary, non-coercive relations would hold even between people who were indifferent or antipathetic to each other. Nor, more to your point, is it sufficient. A and B might be friends yet A reject and B accept a supreme coercive power. Friendship dictates politics only up to a point because friends can have different views about the means - the instrumentalities - required or most likely to maintain civil peace and social justice. Whatever our friendship, you may think the state is an abomination while I see it as a means, even if a necessary evil, to promote my social ideals.
Foucault
We have learnt from Foucault that power is present in all social interactions. Friends may exercise power over each other even in ways neither or none recognises. But I don't think this nullifies my point. Anarchism focuses essentially and antagonistically on the supreme coercive power of the state; and a friendship typically avoids any counterpart to this.
Broadly speaking, Foucault was not interested in the kind of power that anarchists traditionally oppose :
a group of institutions and mechanisms which ensure the subservience of the
citizens of a given state . . . [nor] a mode of subjugation, which in contrast to
violence has the form of the rule ... [nor] a general system of domination exerted by
one group over another. (Michel Foucault, t, The History of Sexuality: Vol. 1 An Introduction, London: Allen Lane, 1979 : 92.)
Rather, Foucault holds a 'capillary' notion of power:
Most scholars emphasize the contrast between Foucault's relational conception of power and the more prevalent understanding of power as a property which can be possessed. They stress his sensitivity to the fluctuating network of power relations, his development of the "capillary" conception of
power - a micro-power which permeates all social strata producing and thus
constraining subjectivity - and his notion of bio-power, which he considered
to be an indispensable element in the development of capitalism. Some under-
score his constant endeavor to problematize the "normal," praising Foucault's
success in showing that phenomena which society deems permanent,
inevitable, and universal, are but a specific period's fabrication. Moreover,
commentators tend to agree that Foucault has opened a new path of critical
inquiry. (Neve Gordon, 'Foucault's Subject: An Ontological Reading', Polity, Vol. 31, No. 3 (Spring, 1999), pp. 395-414: 397.)
Dense as this quote is, it sends us in the right direction. Foucault does not see power as a property possessed by individuals or social units such as politicians, bureaucracy and the security forces or Hobbes' sovereign - at least not the power he's interested in - but as relational. A network of interpersonal relations, over which no-one has sole control and of which nobody has complete knowledge - creates us as 'subjects' and provides the language and concepts by which we 'construct' ourselves as persons or agents. It creates our self-understanding.
I am not entirely happy with this language and do not offer to appraise Foucault's idea of the subject - a shifting idea, I should add. My point is only that the anarchist is not as such concerned with Foucault's idea of how 'subjects' are created. The anarchist is concerned with and opposed to supreme coercive power, the entitlement of governments to obedience, and with the right environment in which for individuals to exercise their autonomy. Foucault takes a different (perhaps subtler) view of things, especially about the formation of the individual. But an anarchist need not agree with him; and this answer proceeds, respecting as it should the OP's question, from the viewpoint of the anarchist.
Anarchism and politics
'Anarchism' as a matter of ordinary discourse is mainly tied to politics. An anarchist society is a voluntary, non-coercive social aggregate. There can be no legitimate government that exerts or threatens to use coercive power against its citizens. Political authority - the entitlement of a government to obedience - is inherently conflictive with individual autonomy, which is seen as an indefeasible value. Autonomy is exercised in precisely the voluntary social aggregates mentioned just above.
This concept of anarchism has to be outlined because it is pretty much, or so I believe, the main sense of the term in ordinary discourse.
Islands of anarchism
This doesn't mean, though, that even in a society where a government - the state - exerts or threatens to use coercive power against its citizens there cannot be social interactions from which coercion is absent. In a commune or a friendship, interactions can be marked by voluntary, non-coercive relationships. In this sense they are islands, small units, of anarchism within an overall coercive society.
**To the extent that your friendships are voluntary and non-coercive, they embody an element of anarchism. I put it this way because I don't think that wanting everyone to be a friend with everyone is necessary for anarchism. In an anarchist society, voluntary, non-coercive relations would hold even between people who were indifferent or antipathetic to each other. Nor, more to your point, is it sufficient. A and B might be friends yet A reject and B accept a supreme coercive power. Friendship dictates politics only up to a point because friends can have different views about the means - the instrumentalities - required or most likely to maintain civil peace and social justice. Whatever our friendship, you may think the state is an abomination while I see it as a means, even if a necessary evil, to promote my social ideals.
Foucault
We have learnt from Foucault that power is present in all social interactions. Friends may exercise power over each other even in ways neither or none recognises. But I don't think this nullifies my point. Anarchism focuses essentially and antagonistically on the supreme coercive power of the state; and a friendship typically avoids any counterpart to this.
Broadly speaking, Foucault was not interested in the kind of power that anarchists traditionally oppose :
a group of institutions and mechanisms which ensure the subservience of the
citizens of a given state . . . [nor] a mode of subjugation, which in contrast to
violence has the form of the rule ... [nor] a general system of domination exerted by
one group over another. (Michel Foucault, t, The History of Sexuality: Vol. 1 An Introduction, London: Allen Lane, 1979 : 92.)
Rather, Foucault holds a 'capillary' notion of power:
Most scholars emphasize the contrast between Foucault's relational conception of power and the more prevalent understanding of power as a property which can be possessed. They stress his sensitivity to the fluctuating network of power relations, his development of the "capillary" conception of
power - a micro-power which permeates all social strata producing and thus
constraining subjectivity - and his notion of bio-power, which he considered
to be an indispensable element in the development of capitalism. Some under-
score his constant endeavor to problematize the "normal," praising Foucault's
success in showing that phenomena which society deems permanent,
inevitable, and universal, are but a specific period's fabrication. Moreover,
commentators tend to agree that Foucault has opened a new path of critical
inquiry. (Neve Gordon, 'Foucault's Subject: An Ontological Reading', Polity, Vol. 31, No. 3 (Spring, 1999), pp. 395-414: 397.)
Dense as this quote is, it sends us in the right direction. Foucault does not see power as a property possessed by individuals or social units such as politicians, bureaucracy and the security forces or Hobbes' sovereign - at least not the power he's interested in - but as relational. A network of interpersonal relations, over which no-one has sole control and of which nobody has complete knowledge - creates us as 'subjects' and provides the language and concepts by which we 'construct' ourselves as persons or agents. It creates our self-understanding.
I am not entirely happy with this language and do not offer to appraise Foucault's idea of the subject - a shifting idea, I should add. My point is only that the anarchist is not as such concerned with Foucault's idea of how 'subjects' are created. The anarchist is concerned with and opposed to supreme coercive power, the entitlement of governments to obedience, and with the right environment in which for individuals to exercise their autonomy. Foucault takes a different (perhaps subtler) view of things, especially about the formation of the individual. But an anarchist need not agree with him; and this answer proceeds, respecting as it should the OP's question, from the viewpoint of the anarchist.
answered 3 hours ago
Geoffrey Thomas♦Geoffrey Thomas
23.6k22091
23.6k22091
add a comment |
add a comment |
I think yes, but the kind of anarchy that is restricted by the boundary of friendship :) ... the question now is, if it is still anarchy if it has this boundary. I personaly would call this utopia.
New contributor
Utopia, because people do not even want to change themselves and their principles to make the world a more pleasant place...
– rus9384
7 hours ago
Would you have a reference to someone who takes a similar view? This would help support your answer and give the reader a place to go for more information. Welcome to Philosophy!
– Frank Hubeny
7 hours ago
add a comment |
I think yes, but the kind of anarchy that is restricted by the boundary of friendship :) ... the question now is, if it is still anarchy if it has this boundary. I personaly would call this utopia.
New contributor
Utopia, because people do not even want to change themselves and their principles to make the world a more pleasant place...
– rus9384
7 hours ago
Would you have a reference to someone who takes a similar view? This would help support your answer and give the reader a place to go for more information. Welcome to Philosophy!
– Frank Hubeny
7 hours ago
add a comment |
I think yes, but the kind of anarchy that is restricted by the boundary of friendship :) ... the question now is, if it is still anarchy if it has this boundary. I personaly would call this utopia.
New contributor
I think yes, but the kind of anarchy that is restricted by the boundary of friendship :) ... the question now is, if it is still anarchy if it has this boundary. I personaly would call this utopia.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 7 hours ago
Ivan ŠišovskýIvan Šišovský
111
111
New contributor
New contributor
Utopia, because people do not even want to change themselves and their principles to make the world a more pleasant place...
– rus9384
7 hours ago
Would you have a reference to someone who takes a similar view? This would help support your answer and give the reader a place to go for more information. Welcome to Philosophy!
– Frank Hubeny
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Utopia, because people do not even want to change themselves and their principles to make the world a more pleasant place...
– rus9384
7 hours ago
Would you have a reference to someone who takes a similar view? This would help support your answer and give the reader a place to go for more information. Welcome to Philosophy!
– Frank Hubeny
7 hours ago
Utopia, because people do not even want to change themselves and their principles to make the world a more pleasant place...
– rus9384
7 hours ago
Utopia, because people do not even want to change themselves and their principles to make the world a more pleasant place...
– rus9384
7 hours ago
Would you have a reference to someone who takes a similar view? This would help support your answer and give the reader a place to go for more information. Welcome to Philosophy!
– Frank Hubeny
7 hours ago
Would you have a reference to someone who takes a similar view? This would help support your answer and give the reader a place to go for more information. Welcome to Philosophy!
– Frank Hubeny
7 hours ago
add a comment |
You seem to have a biased picture of friendship infected by Enlightenment biases and a culture that by default identifies women's friendships as better than men's, and deduces that the principles that underlie them are superior. Since our family relationships are historically female-dominated, we often carry strong biases about relationships that are just not true of men relating to other men.
The overall pattern of male friendships often has hierarchy included. Men who are not exceptionally gifted in any visible way often like structure, and they take social direction and enjoy being led, in a way that most folks who talk about relationships do not understand at all. So, no, friendship and hierarchy have nothing to do with one another whatsoever. There are natural forms of friendship that are reasonable models for a society with identified leadership. But they are relationships between the class of people we define as being bad at relationships -- men of ordinary ambitions.
Leadership is not domination, there is no connection between being subordinate and being treated as property if you take away the context of economic competition and the threat of scarcity. Team sports are not about ownership, and they often involve a hierarchical organization. And in communities that fully embrace equality in value and resource allocation and hold an opposition to dominance and specialization, there are still traditions of leadership, for instance the Quaker tradition of eldering, later laid out as a movement toward "servant/leadership" by folks like Greenleaf.
Well, I also dismiss the notion of political correctness, so I can't say if that makes it feminine or not. I don't say that among friends everyone is equal. One will be less assertive, less initiative than another, but that's not what subordination means (at least to me). I thought it is "inescapable" hierarchy that causes problems. Also, I have not been basing on Enlightment picture of friendship and always treated friendship that way (at least as early as I was 3).
– rus9384
1 hour ago
There is no political correctness here, using principles from Critical Theory does not make one 'politically correct'. You just like finding things to dismiss and reject. So this is "escapable" hierarchy -- you have a good-natured fight and rearrange things. Your biases are the biases of your culture, and modern culture embeds Enlightenment principles, you can protest, but that is not proof of anything. The point is that this notion ignores a lot of reality -- men form hierarchical relationships and stay in them voluntarily, yet we have launched an agenda to insult hierarchies.
– jobermark
39 mins ago
If you don't define friendship, you don't define anarchy and you don't let anyone give interpretation to any of terms you use, like "subordinate", so they can do some exploring, then this is not a question, it is an exercise in guessing what the question might eventually be while you smack them down.
– jobermark
33 mins ago
How can you explain that I don't draw a parallel between religion and culture then (this distinction is a western invention and I live in a country that is somewhat western, but likes to talk about mythical West as of its enemy)? There are things which I agree upon with mainstream thought and there are those which I don't agree upon. And I still think there are differences between hierarchies in a friendship and, say, in a corporation. They are even stated in the post.
– rus9384
32 mins ago
Yes, *in the absence of economic competition and the threat of scarcity" covers this difference. But I assume you did not read that far before choosing to find some reason to insult me.
– jobermark
16 mins ago
|
show 1 more comment
You seem to have a biased picture of friendship infected by Enlightenment biases and a culture that by default identifies women's friendships as better than men's, and deduces that the principles that underlie them are superior. Since our family relationships are historically female-dominated, we often carry strong biases about relationships that are just not true of men relating to other men.
The overall pattern of male friendships often has hierarchy included. Men who are not exceptionally gifted in any visible way often like structure, and they take social direction and enjoy being led, in a way that most folks who talk about relationships do not understand at all. So, no, friendship and hierarchy have nothing to do with one another whatsoever. There are natural forms of friendship that are reasonable models for a society with identified leadership. But they are relationships between the class of people we define as being bad at relationships -- men of ordinary ambitions.
Leadership is not domination, there is no connection between being subordinate and being treated as property if you take away the context of economic competition and the threat of scarcity. Team sports are not about ownership, and they often involve a hierarchical organization. And in communities that fully embrace equality in value and resource allocation and hold an opposition to dominance and specialization, there are still traditions of leadership, for instance the Quaker tradition of eldering, later laid out as a movement toward "servant/leadership" by folks like Greenleaf.
Well, I also dismiss the notion of political correctness, so I can't say if that makes it feminine or not. I don't say that among friends everyone is equal. One will be less assertive, less initiative than another, but that's not what subordination means (at least to me). I thought it is "inescapable" hierarchy that causes problems. Also, I have not been basing on Enlightment picture of friendship and always treated friendship that way (at least as early as I was 3).
– rus9384
1 hour ago
There is no political correctness here, using principles from Critical Theory does not make one 'politically correct'. You just like finding things to dismiss and reject. So this is "escapable" hierarchy -- you have a good-natured fight and rearrange things. Your biases are the biases of your culture, and modern culture embeds Enlightenment principles, you can protest, but that is not proof of anything. The point is that this notion ignores a lot of reality -- men form hierarchical relationships and stay in them voluntarily, yet we have launched an agenda to insult hierarchies.
– jobermark
39 mins ago
If you don't define friendship, you don't define anarchy and you don't let anyone give interpretation to any of terms you use, like "subordinate", so they can do some exploring, then this is not a question, it is an exercise in guessing what the question might eventually be while you smack them down.
– jobermark
33 mins ago
How can you explain that I don't draw a parallel between religion and culture then (this distinction is a western invention and I live in a country that is somewhat western, but likes to talk about mythical West as of its enemy)? There are things which I agree upon with mainstream thought and there are those which I don't agree upon. And I still think there are differences between hierarchies in a friendship and, say, in a corporation. They are even stated in the post.
– rus9384
32 mins ago
Yes, *in the absence of economic competition and the threat of scarcity" covers this difference. But I assume you did not read that far before choosing to find some reason to insult me.
– jobermark
16 mins ago
|
show 1 more comment
You seem to have a biased picture of friendship infected by Enlightenment biases and a culture that by default identifies women's friendships as better than men's, and deduces that the principles that underlie them are superior. Since our family relationships are historically female-dominated, we often carry strong biases about relationships that are just not true of men relating to other men.
The overall pattern of male friendships often has hierarchy included. Men who are not exceptionally gifted in any visible way often like structure, and they take social direction and enjoy being led, in a way that most folks who talk about relationships do not understand at all. So, no, friendship and hierarchy have nothing to do with one another whatsoever. There are natural forms of friendship that are reasonable models for a society with identified leadership. But they are relationships between the class of people we define as being bad at relationships -- men of ordinary ambitions.
Leadership is not domination, there is no connection between being subordinate and being treated as property if you take away the context of economic competition and the threat of scarcity. Team sports are not about ownership, and they often involve a hierarchical organization. And in communities that fully embrace equality in value and resource allocation and hold an opposition to dominance and specialization, there are still traditions of leadership, for instance the Quaker tradition of eldering, later laid out as a movement toward "servant/leadership" by folks like Greenleaf.
You seem to have a biased picture of friendship infected by Enlightenment biases and a culture that by default identifies women's friendships as better than men's, and deduces that the principles that underlie them are superior. Since our family relationships are historically female-dominated, we often carry strong biases about relationships that are just not true of men relating to other men.
The overall pattern of male friendships often has hierarchy included. Men who are not exceptionally gifted in any visible way often like structure, and they take social direction and enjoy being led, in a way that most folks who talk about relationships do not understand at all. So, no, friendship and hierarchy have nothing to do with one another whatsoever. There are natural forms of friendship that are reasonable models for a society with identified leadership. But they are relationships between the class of people we define as being bad at relationships -- men of ordinary ambitions.
Leadership is not domination, there is no connection between being subordinate and being treated as property if you take away the context of economic competition and the threat of scarcity. Team sports are not about ownership, and they often involve a hierarchical organization. And in communities that fully embrace equality in value and resource allocation and hold an opposition to dominance and specialization, there are still traditions of leadership, for instance the Quaker tradition of eldering, later laid out as a movement toward "servant/leadership" by folks like Greenleaf.
edited 1 hour ago
answered 1 hour ago
jobermarkjobermark
25.7k1465
25.7k1465
Well, I also dismiss the notion of political correctness, so I can't say if that makes it feminine or not. I don't say that among friends everyone is equal. One will be less assertive, less initiative than another, but that's not what subordination means (at least to me). I thought it is "inescapable" hierarchy that causes problems. Also, I have not been basing on Enlightment picture of friendship and always treated friendship that way (at least as early as I was 3).
– rus9384
1 hour ago
There is no political correctness here, using principles from Critical Theory does not make one 'politically correct'. You just like finding things to dismiss and reject. So this is "escapable" hierarchy -- you have a good-natured fight and rearrange things. Your biases are the biases of your culture, and modern culture embeds Enlightenment principles, you can protest, but that is not proof of anything. The point is that this notion ignores a lot of reality -- men form hierarchical relationships and stay in them voluntarily, yet we have launched an agenda to insult hierarchies.
– jobermark
39 mins ago
If you don't define friendship, you don't define anarchy and you don't let anyone give interpretation to any of terms you use, like "subordinate", so they can do some exploring, then this is not a question, it is an exercise in guessing what the question might eventually be while you smack them down.
– jobermark
33 mins ago
How can you explain that I don't draw a parallel between religion and culture then (this distinction is a western invention and I live in a country that is somewhat western, but likes to talk about mythical West as of its enemy)? There are things which I agree upon with mainstream thought and there are those which I don't agree upon. And I still think there are differences between hierarchies in a friendship and, say, in a corporation. They are even stated in the post.
– rus9384
32 mins ago
Yes, *in the absence of economic competition and the threat of scarcity" covers this difference. But I assume you did not read that far before choosing to find some reason to insult me.
– jobermark
16 mins ago
|
show 1 more comment
Well, I also dismiss the notion of political correctness, so I can't say if that makes it feminine or not. I don't say that among friends everyone is equal. One will be less assertive, less initiative than another, but that's not what subordination means (at least to me). I thought it is "inescapable" hierarchy that causes problems. Also, I have not been basing on Enlightment picture of friendship and always treated friendship that way (at least as early as I was 3).
– rus9384
1 hour ago
There is no political correctness here, using principles from Critical Theory does not make one 'politically correct'. You just like finding things to dismiss and reject. So this is "escapable" hierarchy -- you have a good-natured fight and rearrange things. Your biases are the biases of your culture, and modern culture embeds Enlightenment principles, you can protest, but that is not proof of anything. The point is that this notion ignores a lot of reality -- men form hierarchical relationships and stay in them voluntarily, yet we have launched an agenda to insult hierarchies.
– jobermark
39 mins ago
If you don't define friendship, you don't define anarchy and you don't let anyone give interpretation to any of terms you use, like "subordinate", so they can do some exploring, then this is not a question, it is an exercise in guessing what the question might eventually be while you smack them down.
– jobermark
33 mins ago
How can you explain that I don't draw a parallel between religion and culture then (this distinction is a western invention and I live in a country that is somewhat western, but likes to talk about mythical West as of its enemy)? There are things which I agree upon with mainstream thought and there are those which I don't agree upon. And I still think there are differences between hierarchies in a friendship and, say, in a corporation. They are even stated in the post.
– rus9384
32 mins ago
Yes, *in the absence of economic competition and the threat of scarcity" covers this difference. But I assume you did not read that far before choosing to find some reason to insult me.
– jobermark
16 mins ago
Well, I also dismiss the notion of political correctness, so I can't say if that makes it feminine or not. I don't say that among friends everyone is equal. One will be less assertive, less initiative than another, but that's not what subordination means (at least to me). I thought it is "inescapable" hierarchy that causes problems. Also, I have not been basing on Enlightment picture of friendship and always treated friendship that way (at least as early as I was 3).
– rus9384
1 hour ago
Well, I also dismiss the notion of political correctness, so I can't say if that makes it feminine or not. I don't say that among friends everyone is equal. One will be less assertive, less initiative than another, but that's not what subordination means (at least to me). I thought it is "inescapable" hierarchy that causes problems. Also, I have not been basing on Enlightment picture of friendship and always treated friendship that way (at least as early as I was 3).
– rus9384
1 hour ago
There is no political correctness here, using principles from Critical Theory does not make one 'politically correct'. You just like finding things to dismiss and reject. So this is "escapable" hierarchy -- you have a good-natured fight and rearrange things. Your biases are the biases of your culture, and modern culture embeds Enlightenment principles, you can protest, but that is not proof of anything. The point is that this notion ignores a lot of reality -- men form hierarchical relationships and stay in them voluntarily, yet we have launched an agenda to insult hierarchies.
– jobermark
39 mins ago
There is no political correctness here, using principles from Critical Theory does not make one 'politically correct'. You just like finding things to dismiss and reject. So this is "escapable" hierarchy -- you have a good-natured fight and rearrange things. Your biases are the biases of your culture, and modern culture embeds Enlightenment principles, you can protest, but that is not proof of anything. The point is that this notion ignores a lot of reality -- men form hierarchical relationships and stay in them voluntarily, yet we have launched an agenda to insult hierarchies.
– jobermark
39 mins ago
If you don't define friendship, you don't define anarchy and you don't let anyone give interpretation to any of terms you use, like "subordinate", so they can do some exploring, then this is not a question, it is an exercise in guessing what the question might eventually be while you smack them down.
– jobermark
33 mins ago
If you don't define friendship, you don't define anarchy and you don't let anyone give interpretation to any of terms you use, like "subordinate", so they can do some exploring, then this is not a question, it is an exercise in guessing what the question might eventually be while you smack them down.
– jobermark
33 mins ago
How can you explain that I don't draw a parallel between religion and culture then (this distinction is a western invention and I live in a country that is somewhat western, but likes to talk about mythical West as of its enemy)? There are things which I agree upon with mainstream thought and there are those which I don't agree upon. And I still think there are differences between hierarchies in a friendship and, say, in a corporation. They are even stated in the post.
– rus9384
32 mins ago
How can you explain that I don't draw a parallel between religion and culture then (this distinction is a western invention and I live in a country that is somewhat western, but likes to talk about mythical West as of its enemy)? There are things which I agree upon with mainstream thought and there are those which I don't agree upon. And I still think there are differences between hierarchies in a friendship and, say, in a corporation. They are even stated in the post.
– rus9384
32 mins ago
Yes, *in the absence of economic competition and the threat of scarcity" covers this difference. But I assume you did not read that far before choosing to find some reason to insult me.
– jobermark
16 mins ago
Yes, *in the absence of economic competition and the threat of scarcity" covers this difference. But I assume you did not read that far before choosing to find some reason to insult me.
– jobermark
16 mins ago
|
show 1 more comment
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I could be friends with a somewhat narcissistic individual who does frequently "rule" me... There are many interpersonal dynamics your friendship model would not allow, as such it is too simple and restrictive. As for anarchy, it does not mean that if I accept "anarchy" in my sphere of friends, that I would allow it in a political sphere. Even if I am a friend to everyone I can still expect my friends to behave differently in certain aspects of social interaction: political, economic, professional, etc.
– christo183
7 hours ago
@christo Economic, political, professional, academical, etc. is invented for non-friends. The idea is that people never play social roles. Regarding narcissic individuals, they simply need to learn to love themselves without admiration.
– rus9384
7 hours ago
It's more like 'humanism'
– Richard
7 hours ago
@Richard Humanism makes too much claims that I do not. Also, there is a plenty of humanists, but what they find valuable are papers like declarations and so on. I find their greatest value in toilet. Papers are nothing to me, only mental contents are what I pay attention to.
– rus9384
5 hours ago
How can you tell me that friends have no authority over each other without defining friendship? Friends don't say false things!
– elliot svensson
3 hours ago